2016-2017 NBA Thread

[Chisoxfn]

My reply to this is...ok...I'm willing to consider that you're right...but you also told me one thing specifically, that if we brought in D-Wade, Wade would be the guy who helped us get over the hump in recruiting FA. So, bringing in Rondo helped land Wade and bringing in Wade both could have helped butler a little bit and is supposed to help us get over that hump. Regardless of how poorly constructed this roster was, and that was obvious at the time - that would all be redeemed if we landed a strong enough FA class.

 

So, your plan is on the clock next offseason. Bring it.

I never said the roster constructed was good and I don't recall saying we should go after Wade, I believe I touted that since we got Wade, I hope it is a sign that we can recruit and he can help us recruit. My view for things to work is we do need to get one, if not two, good size free agent signings over the course of the next two years (ideally, another one next season). But I also said we couldn't be a total dumpster fire this year, as that could really hurt the odds of signing a free agent. I do think it will be interesting to see what the Bulls do with some of the guys who probably aren't back next year (most notably Niko and potentially Taj) as they'll need to ensure they have cap space.

 

By the way, another way to think about things is this, with Butler here, my view is you are an option for big name Free agents. Without him here, you aren't an option until you develop a new star who free agents would want to play with. Exhibit A is the Lakers. They are probably one of the most desirable locations for any FA, yet the past couple off-seasons, when they had zero proven talent (outside of a retiring Kobe), yet tons of money, and all they have done is whiff. Instead they had to spend their money on Deng & Mosgov for pete sake. So remember, if you trade Butler and blow it up, you are going to be forced to build through the draft, because the free agent route (to find additional stars) isn't going to be available.

 

Now if people don't want to play with Butler...I'll take it all back (and we should dump him), but Wade seems to be helping Butler and it certainly seems like Butler has grown tight with quite a few guys he played with on team USA. His personality is the anti-rose too...so I very much could see Jimmy's personality and dynamic being a very valuable asset when it comes to recruiting. Did anyone notice how many times he and Kryie were joking with each other during yesterday's game?

[southsider2k5]

If they can get a Carmelo to NYY type of return for Jimmy, I will drive him to the airport.

[Jenksismyhero]

I never said the roster constructed was good and I don't recall saying we should go after Wade, I believe I touted that since we got Wade, I hope it is a sign that we can recruit and he can help us recruit. My view for things to work is we do need to get one, if not two, good size free agent signings over the course of the next two years (ideally, another one next season). But I also said we couldn't be a total dumpster fire this year, as that could really hurt the odds of signing a free agent. I do think it will be interesting to see what the Bulls do with some of the guys who probably aren't back next year (most notably Niko and potentially Taj) as they'll need to ensure they have cap space.

 

The "Wade/Butler convince someone like Chris Paul to come as a FA next year" plan is a better option than "completely tank, get a couple of lottery picks that have a 10% shot at working out" plan.

 

Do people not remember Elton Brand or Ron Artest or Darnel Fizer or Eddy Curry or Jay Williams or Captain Kirk or Ben Gordon? All lottery picks except for Artest (16). Brand has had the best career and was probably a franchise-worthy player, but the rest are good role players at best. None approached Jimmy's level. Why on Earth give up on that sure thing?

[Panerista]

First return for the all star ballot and Jimmy is only 6th, behind Lebron, Giannis, Embiid, Love and Melo. Are Giannis and Embiid getting a lot of votes from their home countries like Zaza?

Are you suggesting Giannis is undeserving?

[Jenksismyhero]

If they can get a Carmelo to NYY type of return for Jimmy, I will drive him to the airport.

 

The moves that netted Denver three first round losses and three no playoff appearances in the 6 seasons since. No thanks.

[Chisoxfn]

If they can get a Carmelo to NYY type of return for Jimmy, I will drive him to the airport.

Knicks did a horrible job building around him, but I don't see how the Nuggets did that great out of it. If anything, all I blame is the Knicks front office for being inept and wasting a guy who for a long time was one of the best players in the league and an elite scorer. The Nuggets were in a different position in the sense they could either get something for him or let him walk and get nothing though, where as the Bulls have Butler for another couple of years before he can opt out.

[Chisoxfn]

First return for the all star ballot and Jimmy is only 6th, behind Lebron, Giannis, Embiid, Love and Melo. Are Giannis and Embiid getting a lot of votes from their home countries like Zaza?

Giannis is 2nd in the leauge in PER, behind Westbrook. No idea how / where Westbrook is on this list? Giannis is totally deserving. Embiid is an all star, but probably shouldn't be that high. Jimmy 6th actually seems relatively reasonable to me, although I don't have Love & Melo ahead of him, but Durant/Westbrook/Harden should be ahead of Butler and Steph arguably could be as well.

 

By the way, that is purely from an all star perspective and who is deserving based upon production (not at all going who is the better player).

[Balta1701]

I never said the roster constructed was good and I don't recall saying we should go after Wade, I believe I touted that since we got Wade, I hope it is a sign that we can recruit and he can help us recruit. My view for things to work is we do need to get one, if not two, good size free agent signings over the course of the next two years (ideally, another one next season). But I also said we couldn't be a total dumpster fire this year, as that could really hurt the odds of signing a free agent. I do think it will be interesting to see what the Bulls do with some of the guys who probably aren't back next year (most notably Niko and potentially Taj) as they'll need to ensure they have cap space.

 

By the way, another way to think about things is this, with Butler here, my view is you are an option for big name Free agents. Without him here, you aren't an option until you develop a new star who free agents would want to play with. Exhibit A is the Lakers. They are probably one of the most desirable locations for any FA, yet the past couple off-seasons, when they had zero proven talent (outside of a retiring Kobe), yet tons of money, and all they have done is whiff. Instead they had to spend their money on Deng & Mosgov for pete sake. So remember, if you trade Butler and blow it up, you are going to be forced to build through the draft, because the free agent route (to find additional stars) isn't going to be available.

 

Now if people don't want to play with Butler...I'll take it all back (and we should dump him), but Wade seems to be helping Butler and it certainly seems like Butler has grown tight with quite a few guys he played with on team USA. His personality is the anti-rose too...so I very much could see Jimmy's personality and dynamic being a very valuable asset when it comes to recruiting. Did anyone notice how many times he and Kryie were joking with each other during yesterday's game?

So like you said, we've done everything we could on the "make this a destination landing spot". We're now going to be judged on whether or not we hit.

 

If we don't...well then we'll have held and blown Jimmy's best years. It's really that simple. We're all in on this being a FA landing site.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Are you suggesting Giannis is undeserving?

 

Giannis is 2nd in the leauge in PER, behind Westbrook. No idea how / where Westbrook is on this list? Giannis is totally deserving. Embiid is an all star, but probably shouldn't be that high. Jimmy 6th actually seems relatively reasonable to me, although I don't have Love & Melo ahead of him, but Durant/Westbrook/Harden should be ahead of Butler and Steph arguably could be as well.

 

By the way, that is purely from an all star perspective and who is deserving based upon production (not at all going who is the better player).

 

I think Giannis is deserving, my vote for East front court would be Lebron, Giannis, then Jimmy. Giannis is having a great season, but he has over 500k votes right now playing in one of the smallest markets in the league, while Jimmy only has 190K, playing for the team that leads the league in attendance. The margin shouldn't be that wide.

 

EDIT: what I listed was East front court votings only, these players you mentioned all have over 500k votes, again suggesting that Jimmy doesn't get a lot of love around the league.

Edited January 5, 2017 by 2005thxfrthmmrs

[Chisoxfn]

Kyle Korver has supposedly been traded to the Cavs.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Kyle Korver has supposedly been traded to the Cavs.

 

Cavs gonna have GOAT level spacing.

[Dick Allen]

Except for assists, Jimmy's numbers are all better than the numbers DRose put up his MVP year. He is annoying speaking in the 3rd person, and all that crap, but he has made himself a top 10 player.

[Boogua]

Cavs gonna have GOAT level spacing.

As the teams are currently constructed the cavs should definitely beat the Warriors in the finals. The Warriors need some sort of rim protection.

[Balta1701]

As the teams are currently constructed the cavs should definitely beat the Warriors in the finals. The Warriors need some sort of rim protection.

the rise of taj?

[southsider2k5]

670 The Score ‏@670TheScore 3m3 minutes ago #Bulls send Bobby Portis, Paul Zipser to D-League to get playing time with Windy City Bulls tonight

 

 

[Chi Town Sox]

Knicks did a horrible job building around him, but I don't see how the Nuggets did that great out of it. If anything, all I blame is the Knicks front office for being inept and wasting a guy who for a long time was one of the best players in the league and an elite scorer. The Nuggets were in a different position in the sense they could either get something for him or let him walk and get nothing though, where as the Bulls have Butler for another couple of years before he can opt out.

 

Regardless of what we all think of Melo, typically you lose the trade in the NBA if you are giving away the best player. The Nuggets gave away an elite scorer for a bunch of guys who are 3rd options at best.

 

[Panerista]

The Knicks are just so incompetent. I almost feel sorry for Derrick and Joakim.

[Brian]

Ron Baker plays down the stretch over Rose and helps them beat Milwaukee. Ouch

[Panerista]

Ron Baker plays down the stretch over Rose and helps them beat Milwaukee. Ouch

Rose is just so Rose. He'll get 18 points a night on 35% shooting.

[Steve9347]

If they can get a Carmelo to NYY type of return for Jimmy, I will drive him to the airport.

Yeah look how great the Nuggets wound up. Danilo is a stud.

 

GTFO out here. Years later Melo is still the best player in the deal and the Nuggets are a joke.

[Chisoxfn]

Three teams could probably offer something that would potentially entice me to move Butler. 76er's (built around Simmons, Noel/Okafor, and their top pick), Lakers (Ingram, Russell and/or Randle, and future 1st's, or Twolves (built around Wiggins, Dunn/Lavine, and their 1st pick). I'm not saying any of those teams would make that deal, but I could see the Lakers / Philly getting a bit desperate. I'm not sure if I'd do any of these three deals, but I'd probably like Philly's the most. Lakers could get pretty desperate and their pick obviously looks really good too (in what is supposed to be a pretty strong draft...problem is, it could just as easily belong to another team depending on where they fall in the lottery).

 

Local LA radio was talking up the Lakers going after Butler so they could get their superstar and they had Woj on and he said the Bulls would be crazy to trade Butler and their best chance to win is to built around Butler. It isn't as if he is walking anytime soon nor has he peaked / on the wrong side of 30, so as Woj put it, even if the Bulls whiffed this offseason, you still have time to get it right with Butler vs. pressing the reset button. Said it would take a ridiculous trade offer for the Bulls to move him.

 

Celtics couldn't pull deal off in off-season, when Bulls wanted a lot more, and now they have even less asset to make deal, so sees no way they could pull deal off, without third team getting involved. I personally think Ainge whiffed by not stepping up because had he met the Bulls offer, I think Boston would have been the ultimate winners of the deal (in the sense that Butler would be huge for them).

[soxsoxsoxsox]

would be funny if Rondo winds up on the CAVS

[Panerista]

would be funny if Rondo winds up on the CAVS

The Bulls should get a parade if that happens.

[Boogua]

Three teams could probably offer something that would potentially entice me to move Butler. 76er's (built around Simmons, Noel/Okafor, and their top pick), Lakers (Ingram, Russell and/or Randle, and future 1st's, or Twolves (built around Wiggins, Dunn/Lavine, and their 1st pick). I'm not saying any of those teams would make that deal, but I could see the Lakers / Philly getting a bit desperate. I'm not sure if I'd do any of these three deals, but I'd probably like Philly's the most. Lakers could get pretty desperate and their pick obviously looks really good too (in what is supposed to be a pretty strong draft...problem is, it could just as easily belong to another team depending on where they fall in the lottery).

 

Local LA radio was talking up the Lakers going after Butler so they could get their superstar and they had Woj on and he said the Bulls would be crazy to trade Butler and their best chance to win is to built around Butler. It isn't as if he is walking anytime soon nor has he peaked / on the wrong side of 30, so as Woj put it, even if the Bulls whiffed this offseason, you still have time to get it right with Butler vs. pressing the reset button. Said it would take a ridiculous trade offer for the Bulls to move him.

 

Celtics couldn't pull deal off in off-season, when Bulls wanted a lot more, and now they have even less asset to make deal, so sees no way they could pull deal off, without third team getting involved. I personally think Ainge whiffed by not stepping up because had he met the Bulls offer, I think Boston would have been the ultimate winners of the deal (in the sense that Butler would be huge for them).

I don't think any of those teams would accept those trades.

 

I can't see the Bulls building around Jimmy either, unless they're able to attract some top FAs, which they've never really been able to do. I really wouldn't mind a trade with the Celtics for Brown, Smart, one or two of their European players along with a bunch of picks. That's much better than what the Nuggets got for Melo IMO

[Panerista]

I don't think any of those teams would accept those trades.

 

I can't see the Bulls building around Jimmy either, unless they're able to attract some top FAs, which they've never really been able to do. I really wouldn't mind a trade with the Celtics for Brown, Smart, one or two of their European players along with a bunch of picks. That's much better than what the Nuggets got for Melo IMO

If the Bulls can keep Jimmy and lose and get in the draft lottery, there are possibilities. Some of the best players in the NBA right now were picked outside of the top ten. That being said, I think you have to lose Gar to make that happen.

 

The Spurs got their best player with a 15th overall pick. We got ours with 30th. The guy who looks to be the next best player in the NBA went 15th to Milwaukee.

 

The problem is, Gar has shown time and time again that we will not be able to pick the guy we need.