2016-2017 NBA Thread

[shipps]

Bleacher Report ‏@BleacherReport 20m20 minutes ago

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Knicks reportedly offered Carmelo Anthony to Cavaliers in trade for Kevin Love, per @ESPNSteinLine

 

DETAILS: http://ble.ac/2j5Rfa4

[southsider2k5]

Bleacher Report ‏@BleacherReport 20m20 minutes ago

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Knicks reportedly offered Carmelo Anthony to Cavaliers in trade for Kevin Love, per @ESPNSteinLine

 

DETAILS: http://ble.ac/2j5Rfa4

 

I bet they did.

[bmags]

Rondo didn't flunk out Sacramento. He played 72 games and led the league in dimes and then signed a free agency contract in the offseason.

 

His team scored more points with him on the bench. They didn't and were not open to trying to retain him.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/7/1/120...ign-rajon-rondo

 

He wasn't good. As you can see from watching him now play up close, he will pass up free layups to kick it out to bobby portis covered at the three point line. His stats are empty.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Bleacher Report ‏@BleacherReport 20m20 minutes ago

More

Knicks reportedly offered Carmelo Anthony to Cavaliers in trade for Kevin Love, per @ESPNSteinLine

 

DETAILS: http://ble.ac/2j5Rfa4

 

I think Rose would actually be good second unit PG for the Cavs. They have no PG depth right now, and they need someone who could do some drive and kicks in that second unit. Would cost them a lot less than Love.

 

Edit: salary match is a problem though.

Edited January 25, 2017 by 2005thxfrthmmrs

[bmags]

Assume there is no deal to cavs where they take on salary.

[Chisoxfn]

Assume there is no deal to cavs where they take on salary.

Cavs can't even get Rondo, so presume they wouldn't be able to get Rose. I suppose there is some way of doing it, but I doubt it is one in which the deal makes sense for the Cavs.

[Steve9347]

His team scored more points with him on the bench. They didn't and were not open to trying to retain him.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/7/1/120...ign-rajon-rondo

 

He wasn't good. As you can see from watching him now play up close, he will pass up free layups to kick it out to bobby portis covered at the three point line. His stats are empty.

I didn't say he was good. I simply refuted the point that he flunked out of Sacramento. They played hunk huge minutes.

 

Huge.

 

Huuuuuuuge

[Steve9347]

I bet they did.

No s***. Love is in the prime of his career and playing wonderful ball.

[Chisoxfn]

What a f***ing waste of Wade / Butlers effort. Pathetic. Hoiberg is f***ing awful. The players are stupid. Front office blows.

[Brian]

What a f***ing waste of Wade / Butlers effort. Pathetic. Hoiberg is f***ing awful. The players are stupid. Front office blows.

 

Noticed Wade half assed it down court during the last few minutes a couple of times. Would rather talk with refs.

 

Niko is trash. Why is Zipster on the floor down the stretch?

[Dick Allen]

Wade and Butler blasted the rest of the team after the game.

 

The both made it seem like they did their jobs, the rest of the team doesn't care if they win or lose.

 

I don't know if their validity in the caring part, but saying you did your job the rest of the team didn't doesn't work well in team sports. The roster sucks. That is the problem.

[Rowand44]

There's a nice little video of Wade half assing it down the court on defense and then he blasts everyone after the game for effort.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Rowand44

[Rowand44]

Here ya go: https://twitter.com/hungarianjordan/status/...462487370207232

[Chisoxfn]

I wonder if Wade ends up being traded this year, to either the Clippers or the Cavs, where he can play with one of his guys. Not sure how salaries would work and clearly Bulls would have to get assets back as Wade should have value to a contender. Hoiberg / Gar have to be on the way out. I presume Paxson gets to hire another set (as I can't see JR getting rid of him, unless he wants to step down).

 

There was a play late last night where Hoiberg wanted to call a TO and Butler just looked at him, shook his head, and said "F*CK NO"...Butler then went down the court and hit a quick bucket. The players have zero respect for Hoiberg and it is evident no one thinks he is a good coach. I don't think Taj should be put on blast, but I think almost everyone else deserves it. Taj did have a stupid three, but the defensive rotations were god awful. Lopez was out of position all of the time and I don't even know if it was Lopez or if it was more that no one knows how to play any team defense cause the coaches can't stick the message and hold the players accountable. Its a mess.

 

I watch a lot of their games and they go on these stretches, like no Bulls team I have seen in a while, where they literally play "ole" defense. Its awful. Just awful and NO ONE is ever held accountable. Hoiberg neutered himself last year and nothing has changed. I realize Butler shouldn't have done what he did, but Wade has been around a long time and I'm sure he knows a bad coach when he sees on and a bad staff and I think at this point, he realizes, they will never get over the hump the way they are coached.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm starting to seriously wonder if Fred even makes it to the all star break.

[Chisoxfn]

Wade ripping into the team, with Butler backing him up...based upon the quotes I saw, a lot of it was consistent with Stacey King who was putting the players on blast, but obviously deeper. I think a lot of it starts with the tone (or lack thereof) set by the head coach but clearly Butler & Wade are trying to drive change the only way they know how at this point. They know they have a coach who can't do it and a flawed roster, so I'm guessing this was the straw the broke the camels back where they try to make that point.

 

Gar and Pax screwed up so badly when they kicked Thibs to the curb and didn't execute a real head coaching search. There were plenty of other mistakes made, but I legitimately believe that Fred Hoiberg is one of the worst NBA coaches I have ever seen. It might have been okay if he came in with a young team who he was trying to groom over time (even then I highly doubt it because I've seen nothing out of him that shows me he has what it takes to help make young players better). But a veteran team...from the start by lying about Noah's benching to everything else. No accountability for forever...then he finally started to a bit, but by that point, it was too late. No one and I mean no one in that lockeroom respects him and that is a major major problem.

[whitesoxfan99]

Wade ripping into the team, with Butler backing him up...based upon the quotes I saw, a lot of it was consistent with Stacey King who was putting the players on blast, but obviously deeper. I think a lot of it starts with the tone (or lack thereof) set by the head coach but clearly Butler & Wade are trying to drive change the only way they know how at this point. They know they have a coach who can't do it and a flawed roster, so I'm guessing this was the straw the broke the camels back where they try to make that point.

 

I have no problem with Butler criticizing the team but Wade needs to be way more consistent with his own effort to do that. He is as guilty as anyone of lazy play on defense.

[Chisoxfn]

I have no problem with Butler criticizing the team but Wade needs to be way more consistent with his own effort to do that. He is as guilty as anyone of lazy play on defense.

I agree, Wade is a lazy defender, but in general, the two of them (plus Gibson & Lopez), you basically have four players who have consistently played at a level worthy of being a rotational guy in the NBA. Other players have had minor moments, but in general, everyone else's aggregate performance has been hot garbage. My view is we need to move Taj and/or Lopez in an attempt to get some 1st round picks in a deep draft (or something). Then you just let Portis and Felicio play to see if you have anything in them.

 

Niko you got to move too, unfortunately, the Bulls have ruined him, so I don't know what we could get (maybe we could deal him to Kings and guarantee we get their pick this year). I do think he'll go somewhere where he is properly coached and go back to being an effective player (see Spurs). Rondo you will get nothing for....absolutely nothing and Butler I presume won't get dealt and they will give it another guy to build around him, but I might be wrong. Butler is a conundrum because he is so freaking good, but we have such utter crap surrounding him. I also don't know how he would deal with a total rebuild like that, but clearly you'd need to sign someone in free agency.

 

With Wade, I wonder if we could actually move him to a team (his contract obviously makes it tough) and he'd have to be open for it. But do you kind of "tank" the rest of the year (getting picks for Wade / Taj / Lopez and hopefully Niko (but maybe some young players too...plus I'm sure some expiring vets or something to make contracts work) and maybe end up where you have quite a few picks in this year (and next years draft) plus cap space. In the meantime, let Grant, Valentine, Zipser, Portis, McDermott, Feliciou get a ton of minutes to get better clarity on what you have in those guys.

[Rowand44]

I honestly can't say the Bulls have ruined Niko, this guy was just never good. He had one good month his rookie year and everyone kind of wents nuts about him. Besides that, he's been bad the whole time.

[southsider2k5]

This one is even better. Hoiberg tells Jimmy to call a time out after a hit free throw. Butler tells Hoiberg "f*** no!" There is a clip at the tweet.

 

Stephen Noh ‏@hungarianjordan 57m57 minutes ago Hoiberg told Butler to call timeout and Butler looked at him like he was crazy. Butler freelanced and scored on the next play.

[Chisoxfn]

I honestly can't say the Bulls have ruined Niko, this guy was just never good. He had one good month his rookie year and everyone kind of wents nuts about him. Besides that, he's been bad the whole time.

He has poor basketball IQ but good basketball skills. I think he would have evolved into a good rotational player under a real coach. I could be all wrong though because I legitimately think Fred is one of the worse coaches in NBA history. And I don't tend to think of myself as a poster who makes a lot of "extreme" statements like that. Whether a good coach could help his IQ and help him make strides, I don't know, but I haven't seen Fred do much anything every to develop guys. He has a career PER of 15.8, which is certainly rotational worthy.

[Chisoxfn]

This one is even better. Hoiberg tells Jimmy to call a time out after a hit free throw. Butler tells Hoiberg "f*** no!" There is a clip at the tweet.

 

Stephen Noh ‏@hungarianjordan 57m57 minutes ago Hoiberg told Butler to call timeout and Butler looked at him like he was crazy. Butler freelanced and scored on the next play.

Yep...that was the play I was referencing earlier. Butler was on a roll too...was getting into the lane at will and he just kept it up and got himself a nice bucket vs. the timeout. Like I said, no one on this roster respects Hoiberg and I think a lot of it is because of Fred. Wade is so well respected and he is going on a tirade (and it isn't like Wade hasn't been on bad teams before. Heck, I look at last years Heat team and wonder how this Bulls team is so much worse then the Heat team of last year, which relied on an old Wade and had no one near as good as Butler on the roster (Dragic is a good player though and they clearly had actual contributions from role players and rotational players vs. the Bulls who have gotten zilch).

 

Even look at the Spurs...who rank amongst the top teams in the league defensively, despite having Pau Gasol and Tony Parker, two really porous defensive players. When you look at their roster (from a defensive perspective), there is no reason they should be that much better then the Bulls defensively, other then just the difference in coaching and players all working to the same tune / believing in the system, etc.

 

By the way, I'm not saying the Bulls should be as good as the Spurs because clearly the Spurs are fantastic offensively and the Bulls are not...but the Spurs rank fantastically defensively as well (part of that might be in part due to some hard to quantify benefits of their effective & efficient offense).

[Rowand44]

I'll agree to disagree on Niko, unless we're actually giving him to Pop I don't see him doing much anywhere. And we've had the conversation on Fred before so I wont add much but I will say that I'm certainly not going to shed a tear if they let him go but I don't think anyone is coming into this mess and turning it around.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Rowand44

[GGajewski18]

I'll agree to disagree on Niko, unless we're actually giving him to Pop I don't see him doing much anywhere. And we've had the conversation on Fred before so I wont add much but I will say that I'm certainly not going to shed a tear if they let him go but I don't think anyone is coming into this mess and turning it around.

 

Agreed. To Hoiberg's defense, he hasn't had a roster that fits the way he wants to play. That's on Gar (shocker)

[Chisoxfn]

By the way, given how bad Del Negro & Hoiberg's hires have been...two guys who really had minimal NBA coaching experience, I presume the franchise will look to a more established name or at least a longer term assistant to hire. I would have to think "established" would be high on the list, I just don't know who that would be. We know JR & Doug Collins are tight, but they have both alluded to that never happening. Who would be out there? Avery Johnson never got a second shot and I presume he's been away far too long to be considered again (I always found it out that after that NBA finals choke he never was able to get another job).

 

George Karl would be an interesting name. Very very good coach who has excelled everywhere but Sacramento (which is a wasteland for all things). That said, his run in Sacramento didn't end well. Not a lot of experienced guys sitting on the sidelines right now (who you could hire in-season). Who are the top assistant's out there?