Rowand44 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) The other side of it is that I honestly believe that Barkley doesn't even believe 90% of what comes out of his mouth. I think he gets that his role on that show is to say something outrageous to stir things up. Apparently he touched a nerve with LeBron. Ya, this I can agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Personally, I love Barkley...so damn entertaining. I also like LBJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 In January, despite a "flu riddled 0-6 game" and the "start the game on the bench game", Jimmy put up a PER > 30. Obviously a small sample size, but if you are a believer of PER, that is ridiculously good. Everyone always says "Jimmy has peaked" and has said so for a couple years now and he keeps getting better. If you trade him to Boston for picks that could end up #3 and #5 for all we know in two consecutive drafts and you get guys who bust or are even mediocre, you will look back going, oh my how did we screw up. Boston is going nowhere this year and in the off-season, when you know what those picks are, is the time to move him if you want to (and you need to be getting those picks plus Jaylen Brown and Crowder or Beverly (not to keep but to move elsewhere). Even then I think that deal is a win for Boston. Look at the freaking Harden trade (obviously Harden has blown up since then). In fact, I don't look at the Bulls much different as the Rockets under Harden. A year ago...Rockets .500, this year they are one of the best teams in the league (still no hope at winning a title), but they are a lot closer to a championship then Philly or Lakers, imo. Harden is much better then Butler too (so don't get me wrong). Ridiculous that the Thunder had all three players and what they could have been had they not overreacted / overplayed their hand with Harden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 01:11 PM) One thing I'm trying to ponder is whether or not the next generation of "Superteam assembly" has hurt this. I definitely felt like I enjoyed the Bulls teams that finished 4th-5th in the conference back in the mid-2000s WAY more than I'm enjoying these teams right now. Yes, there were better teams, but you could count on watching good basketball when you put those games on. Now, if you're not watching Cleveland versus Golden State or Golden State vs San Antonio, it seems like you're watching a bunch of middling basketball. Maybe that changes if you have a team that's top 5 in its conference too, but ever since the Heat came together it seems to me like being 4th in the conference just gets a much bigger MEH from me. I think it has more to do with those Bulls teams were exciting because you were coming from an era of terrible Bulls basketball, so it was major improvement and the first wave of excitement. I don't think it is related to the "superteams". I actually love watching Butler play, but I tend to enjoy aspects of iso ball because I like watching great players do ridiculous things. I also can enjoy and appreciate players shooting three's from all over the court, but I'll be honest, I find it more enjoyable watching Lebron make some ridiculous move in the paint or guys hitting these absurd fadeaways. I loved the Jordan era of basketball and still do. Kobe was fantastic to watch too. This Bulls team is coming off runs where we were title contenders (and the Bulls were clearly title contenders for a period...not favorites, but easily contenders) so now that we have taken a step back, it is less entertaining. The Bulls frustrate me because they have whiffed horrifically in recent years in the draft and haven't been able to get development out of key guys (plus the overall inconsistency). When they are playing well (and they have had a lot of spurts of this), I actually find them pretty fun to watch...crashing the boards, solid d, good movement. But when they aren't, the defensive rotations can be awful and offensively they can really stagnate to where it is brutal. When this happens, you see big leads vanish or you just see them get whooped (both things that happen too often and to me are signs of poor coaching / lack of execution). Niko is always dogging it...guys consistently make the same mistakes and up until recently, it certainly appeared that we lacked accountability and that has been pretty evident when you read between the lines of various players comments (even Hoiberg seems to admit he gave players way too much rope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 03:13 PM) People can hate LeBron if they want but he's 100 percent right here. Nah, it was the worst comment to react to. Barkley is 100% right this time. Lebron is being a whiner for complaining about needing help when he has 2 other top 15 players on his team, the Cavs have the highest payroll in NBA history and LEBRON himself orchestrated the deals for guys like Shumpert, Thompson and Korver. He's the GM of the team b****ing about how the GM did a s***ty job. That's moronic. Barkley has always had a problem with Lebron being anointed King before he did anything to earn it. And I think that's going to continue his entire career given a lot of the odd things Lebron has done over time (no showing against Boston, the Decision, no showing against Dallas, and now b****ing about his stacked roster). By the way, I'm 100% convinced all of this stuff from Lebron is premeditated. The b****ing and whining about losing, the complaining about the roster and even the losing itself. It's all about his legacy. It sets up the narrative for a win or loss against the Warriors. Either they get crushed and he'll just say he called it 4 months prior and it was to be expected, or they win and he looks THAT much more impressive for carrying a struggling, undermanned team to a win over the Warriors for the 2nd time. A win-win for him either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 03:13 PM) People can hate LeBron if they want but he's 100 percent right here. Completely disagree. J4L is right on the money with his assessment. I honestly wonder if other players have the same lack of respect for LBJ. Noone voted for him to be an all star. Not one player. Edited January 31, 2017 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Apparently he was on waddle and silvy this afternoon and didn't back down. Should be an interesting listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 05:04 PM) Completely disagree. J4L is right on the money with his assessment. I honestly wonder if other players have the same lack of respect for LBJ. Noone voted for him to be an all star. Not one player. ?? He got the most votes. http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads...ing-Results.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 #TeamLeBron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 04:31 PM) In January, despite a "flu riddled 0-6 game" and the "start the game on the bench game", Jimmy put up a PER > 30. Obviously a small sample size, but if you are a believer of PER, that is ridiculously good. Everyone always says "Jimmy has peaked" and has said so for a couple years now and he keeps getting better. If you trade him to Boston for picks that could end up #3 and #5 for all we know in two consecutive drafts and you get guys who bust or are even mediocre, you will look back going, oh my how did we screw up. Boston is going nowhere this year and in the off-season, when you know what those picks are, is the time to move him if you want to (and you need to be getting those picks plus Jaylen Brown and Crowder or Beverly (not to keep but to move elsewhere). Even then I think that deal is a win for Boston. Look at the freaking Harden trade (obviously Harden has blown up since then). In fact, I don't look at the Bulls much different as the Rockets under Harden. A year ago...Rockets .500, this year they are one of the best teams in the league (still no hope at winning a title), but they are a lot closer to a championship then Philly or Lakers, imo. Harden is much better then Butler too (so don't get me wrong). Ridiculous that the Thunder had all three players and what they could have been had they not overreacted / overplayed their hand with Harden. I completely disagree that the Rockets are closer to winning a title than Philadelphia is. This keeping Jimmy argument is insane because nobody has offered me any semblance of a plan in which they become title contenders with Jimmy Butler on the roster. Not on here, not on twitter, not anywhere. I've firmly laid out what I'd do and acknowledged the potentail downside. When I ask how they become contenders, I hear, "Draft better", "Sign better FA's". Jimmy is going to be 28 years old and they have no chance at winning with him the next 2 years. You would have to pay him huge $$ at age 30-31 and what would they have around him? Sorry. Trading Butler to Boston is the only way this thing gets turned around IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Per usual I think Rachel nailed it and she certainly explains things better than me so I'll just leave this here: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18593943 Edited February 1, 2017 by Rowand44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 05:13 PM) ?? He got the most votes. http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads...ing-Results.pdf Alternative facts. As someone who strongly dislikes both Lebron and Barkley, I love LeBron calling him out on his hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Great start to the road trip. That was a total beat down of the Thunder (who are really struggling since Kanter went down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:30 AM) Great start to the road trip. That was a total beat down of the Thunder (who are really struggling since Kanter went down). Yay Bulls. I watched it in anger. I hate this org so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 My $0.2 is that they should build around Butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:42 AM) My $0.2 is that they should build around Butler. Your 20 cents? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:42 AM) My $0.2 is that they should build around Butler. Do you really believe that or just making fun of me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) Do you really believe that or just making fun of me? I'm just playing with you on the 20 cents part, but yes, I really do think they should build around Butler instead of tearing it all down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) I'm just playing with you on the 20 cents part, but yes, I really do think they should build around Butler instead of tearing it all down. What is your path to a championship with Butler on the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 So I have a question for those pro-tankers...or maybe it is more a random thought. But why has the East sucked compared to the West (basically since Jordan retired)? I would think with all of the draft picks the East would be collecting over that run, you'd have seen dominate teams in the East pop up and in general a shift in power, but that hasn't ever even come close to happening? Now I'm not saying all of those teams in the "East" were tanking and the "West" teams weren't, just saying, that if the logic is to get good you need to get bad, then how has the same conference been so much worse for basically 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 08:49 AM) What is your path to a championship with Butler on the roster? Find other players to build around him. You start with 1 superstar so easier to find a 2nd. When you have none, it is hard to even get to one, let alone two or three. I've given plenty of examples of teams with one star who waited out and then finally got the right piece. It could be via free agency, it could be via trade. I'm not dealing Butler today unless we get a massive haul. I also really haven't yet seen a team succeed through a "tank" strategy, but I've seen a lot of teams suck for a really long time because they can never get the good players in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 This Pat Macafee retirement story was kind of interesting (given he was a pretty good punter or at least I thought he was). http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pat-mcafee-re...-055517794.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:51 AM) Find other players to build around him. You start with 1 superstar so easier to find a 2nd. When you have none, it is hard to even get to one, let alone two or three. I've given plenty of examples of teams with one star who waited out and then finally got the right piece. It could be via free agency, it could be via trade. I'm not dealing Butler today unless we get a massive haul. I also really haven't yet seen a team succeed through a "tank" strategy, but I've seen a lot of teams suck for a really long time because they can never get the good players in the draft. Who are you adding? Wade needs to leave in order for the Bulls to offer another max contract. The only guy that I could see coming to Chicago is Gordon Hayward. Hello 6th seed. Jimmy Butler is 28 years old. There is no path to being good with him the next 2 seasons. After that, he will need a new contract. Free agents won't be leaving their teams as much anymore. They especially won't be coming here. I've offered a plan. Nobody else has. You guys all say "add better players, draft better, you have a superstar get another one" and I hear "blahblahblah yay playoff basketball again". This organization is the biggest f***ing joke in Chicago. They have 1 option. Tear it to the ground. Building around Butler keeps you competitive but doesn't put you in the discussion to win titles. It's just kicking the can down the road. This plan isn't necessarily feasible but it's best option: Trade Niko and Taj for whatever you can get. Fire Gar Forman. Hire Matt Lloyd as GM. Trade Jimmy Butler for 2017 Brooklyn swap and 2018 Brooklyn 1st along with some combination of players from Boston. Dwyane Wade opts out. Bulls are bad the rest of the year and end up with a top 10 pick. Bulls also move Kings into the 11-14 range and take Brooklyn's top 3 selection. 3 lottery picks in this draft, one of which should be 1 of the big 3 PG's sets the Bulls up nicely into the future. They'd also have 2 lottery picks next year. They'd be bad and Boston may not make that deal but this gives you a much more realistic path to a title than patching s*** around Jimmy Butler does. It won't happen though because Michael Reinsdorf likes selling bobble heads and collecting playoff revenue. 1998 was a long ass time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:51 AM) Find other players to build around him. You start with 1 superstar so easier to find a 2nd. When you have none, it is hard to even get to one, let alone two or three. I've given plenty of examples of teams with one star who waited out and then finally got the right piece. It could be via free agency, it could be via trade. I'm not dealing Butler today unless we get a massive haul. I also really haven't yet seen a team succeed through a "tank" strategy, but I've seen a lot of teams suck for a really long time because they can never get the good players in the draft. Exactly. Unlike baseball, the NBA is a superstar driven league. Now I know Butler is LeBron or anything, but he's a quasi-superstar and could potentially attract premier free agents. I've seen James' plan and while it's not a bad idea, I have absolutely no faith in the Bulls to take a future superstar with those lottery picks they'd get for Butler. Look at McDermott. Look at Mirotic. Look at Portis. Look at all the busts they've drafted lately. Why would that change now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:59 AM) Exactly. Unlike baseball, the NBA is a superstar driven league. Now I know Butler is LeBron or anything, but he's a quasi-superstar and could potentially attract premier free agents. I've seen James' plan and while it's not a bad idea, I have absolutely no faith in the Bulls to take a future superstar with those lottery picks they'd get for Butler. Look at McDermott. Look at Mirotic. Look at Portis. Look at all the busts they've drafted lately. Why would that change now? People aren't coming to Chicago to play with Jimmy f***ing Butler instead of taking max deals in their current markets. That's the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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