2016-2017 NBA Thread

[Dick Allen]

Bears and White Sox have a path to a title. Draft, trades, free agent signings. The nature of the NBA puts the Bulls in an impossible situation. Barring like 5-6 teams getting in a plane crash, there really is no path to a title for the Bulls.

They all still need players. The Bulls eventually get a Lebron or MJ or Magic, someone of that ilk, their "path" is a lot shorter. There is still a long way to go for all 3 teams.

[illinilaw08]

Bears and White Sox have a path to a title. Draft, trades, free agent signings. The nature of the NBA puts the Bulls in an impossible situation. Barring like 5-6 teams getting in a plane crash, there really is no path to a title for the Bulls.

 

I think it's largely that the Sox and Bears have picked a direction. After Rose's first knee injury, and really for the majority of Rose's remaining tenure, the Bulls best path to a title was to hope Rose came back looking like MVP Rose. And that was fine and sensible.

 

Now, the Bulls paths are either (1) keep things as they are and hope you luck into a free agency coup (pretty unlikely); or (2) trade Butler for picks and hope you hit on enough early picks over the next 3 years that you open a new window of contention.

 

Butler would have to move in the right deal (read the Nets' pick as the centerpiece in a deal with Boston) where you can jump start the rebuild, but where the Bulls are at the moment is both really far from contention, and also really far from getting the influx of talent they need through the draft.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I don't even know how to figure that out. Bears don't have a QB on the roster capable of leading them to a superbowl, so I don't see it with them. Sox, hell if I know. We have no idea who any of these prospects are and what will happen. Football tends to have more turnover and quicker rises from bottom to top, so it could be the Bears, but I don't know how to justify that statement. I know you disagree that the Bulls will be unable to put another superstar around Butler, but given they have one of the best players in the land (in a sport where best players matter the most), I would still say Bulls are most likely of teams to be successful over the next 5 years. I don't know that I'd peg any of them to win a major championship in that span, at least not now. Maybe all the guys the Sox traded for go on to become superstars and it could happen, but there is no science / high probability I would put on that.

 

It seems clear that the Bulls path is to target free agency this off-season and we'll see what happens. I think they are going to try another year with Butler and at that point, they'll see what they want to do. I think the report on Gar was more to shut everyone up from talking about the front office for the time being and stop the distraction. That said, none of us were in the rooms when the front office went the path of Wade / Rondo. They might have said, look JR, these moves aren't going to make us much different then being a 7th/8th seed, but here is what / how we see this move helping us take the next steps forward. So while fans might be dissapointed, the ultimate expectation and plan might actually be unfolding as they saw fit (obviously not in the sense that Niko sucks, etc, but more from a roster perspective). In fact, I can't imagine any of them thought Butler was going to take even more steps forward.

 

 

More delusion in my opinion. Big free agents aren't coming and they don't have the cap space if they wanted to. If the Sox or Bears get into the playoffs in the next 5 years, they have a "chance" at winning a championship. The same cannot be said about the Bulls in the NBA. Being competitive is bulls***. There are 6 banners in that building. Doing everything possible to put a 7th up there should be the goal and it clearly isn't.

[Kyyle23]

The only thing I can think has happened behind the scenes is some sort of guarantee of a FA coup to the front office by Wade and Jimmy. There is zero reason to stay the course otherwise

 

 

On a side note, McBuckets is wrecked. His confidence is completely gone, he is bricking free throws now. There was a second half scramble against the Kings where both teams turned the ball over it seemed 6 consecutive times and Doug was involved with every one of the Bulls turnovers. He threw a pass into the other half of the court like he thought it was ok

[Dick Allen]

I tend to agree with Jimmy here. What exactly do the Bulls have going for them other than Butler? For me to count them as a threat in the East moving forward they would have to miss the playoffs, get lucky in the lottery and then still hit on a few trades (Lopez/Gibson) or free agent signings. It's pretty amazing the Bulls don't even really have supporting guys in a core. Wade/Gibson/Lopez are decent players but they're all older and they're nothing to write home about. McDermott, Portis, Niko are all pretty much garbage and that's coming from a Niko fan. Valentine can't even get himself into the game. Grant never took the step forward that was hoped for. MCW/Cannon/Rondo are all fodder. There is absolutely nothing going for the Bulls away from Jimmy.

They are no threat, and most likely will be no threat for quite a while, but to say the other teams are closer to a championship? 2 teams had worse records than the Bears in 2016. The White Sox weren't .500 and traded their 2 best players. These teams are years and years away. Maybe something happens this year that closes their gaps, but for me, if I can't see legit shot at title for any of them, I can't say one is clearly farther away than the other 2. If everything goes right for the Sox and/or Bears, then yes.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The only thing I can think has happened behind the scenes is some sort of guarantee of a FA coup to the front office by Wade and Jimmy. There is zero reason to stay the course otherwise

 

 

On a side note, McBuckets is wrecked. His confidence is completely gone, he is bricking free throws now. There was a second half scramble against the Kings where both teams turned the ball over it seemed 6 consecutive times and Doug was involved with every one of the Bulls turnovers. He threw a pass into the other half of the court like he thought it was ok

 

 

A FA coup with what $$ though? That's not the plan. The plan is marketing. That building is full every night because people are idiots.

[Kyyle23]

A FA coup with what $$ though? That's not the plan. The plan is marketing. That building is full every night because people are idiots.

 

Cap is about to shoot through the roof

[Dick Allen]

A FA coup with what $$ though? That's not the plan. The plan is marketing. That building is full every night because people are idiots.

I think they have $29 million in cap space if Wade stays, over $50 million if he flees. But I agree, the top free agents aren't coming here.

[Chisoxfn]

They are no threat, and most likely will be no threat for quite a while, but to say the other teams are closer to a championship? 2 teams had worse records than the Bears in 2016. The White Sox weren't .500 and traded their 2 best players. These teams are years and years away. Maybe something happens this year that closes their gaps, but for me, if I can't see legit shot at title for any of them, I can't say one is clearly farther away than the other 2. If everything goes right for the Sox and/or Bears, then yes.

I am with you...I can not see how one can argue that any of these franchises is closer to a championship and I still think the Bulls are probably the closet by nature, albeit it is a sport where I think it is hardest to win a championship (I think the other sports are easier in some sense because it is less likely at times that the best team actually wins). In basketball, I typically think the NBA champion is truly the best team (we could argue Golden State last year due to Curry's injury...but that is a rare exception, imo). In football, there are definitely years where the best team had a bad game and didn't even make the superbowl (baseball same thing...run into a hot team and the best team can fizzle out quickly).

[southsider2k5]

You know...despite all the Bulls struggles, they are still the professional sports team that currently provides me the most enjoyment (given that I'm not a huge hockey fan). Sox / Bears are awful. Even these past two years, I can still watch and vividly enjoy Bulls games. Not as much as I could during the Thibs era, but they are still a solid team who plays some good games. Yes, they do their share of frustrating things, but hey, if I'm comparing to my other franchises, the Bulls are by far had the most success (maybe a sad statement, but a true statement).

 

I'm hoping the Bears change that soon...but Sox are a few years away from having what I'd call an entertaining product (in the sense that we can even be thinking about the playoffs).

 

The Blackhawks are quite literally the only reason to watch professional sports in Chicago right now. The Bulls are a miserable product these days. I can't tell you the last time I watched an entire Bulls game.

[Chisoxfn]

I think they have $29 million in cap space if Wade stays, over $50 million if he flees. But I agree, the top free agents aren't coming here.

Yep - They have tons of cap room. I don't know who exactly is coming, but with one free agent signing this team is basically a 3 seed in the east...which then puts them another piece away from being that much closer (and Lebron is getting older every year...so is Wade for that matter). Golden State is going to be tough to beat...you are going to need a legion of players to team up to knock Golden State off over the next couple of years (barring injuries), imo.

[southsider2k5]

Bears and White Sox have a path to a title. Draft, trades, free agent signings. The nature of the NBA puts the Bulls in an impossible situation. Barring like 5-6 teams getting in a plane crash, there really is no path to a title for the Bulls.

 

Their paths are both prayers and hope at this point. Call it "I have a dream". Odds are that 10 years down the road, nothing has happened.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think they have $29 million in cap space if Wade stays, over $50 million if he flees. But I agree, the top free agents aren't coming here.

 

 

Mark Shanowski said that if Wade opts-in, they don't have enough for a max free agent

[Dick Allen]

I am with you...I can not see how one can argue that any of these franchises is closer to a championship and I still think the Bulls are probably the closet by nature, albeit it is a sport where I think it is hardest to win a championship (I think the other sports are easier in some sense because it is less likely at times that the best team actually wins). In basketball, I typically think the NBA champion is truly the best team (we could argue Golden State last year due to Curry's injury...but that is a rare exception, imo). In football, there are definitely years where the best team had a bad game and didn't even make the superbowl (baseball same thing...run into a hot team and the best team can fizzle out quickly).

Yes. The problem with the NBA is that there are only about 3 or 4 teams with a legit shot at the title any particular year, if that. But OTOH, there are several teams one player off if that player is Lebron or Durant. If the Bulls somehow got one of them, suddenly they are legit contenders.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I am with you...I can not see how one can argue that any of these franchises is closer to a championship and I still think the Bulls are probably the closet by nature, albeit it is a sport where I think it is hardest to win a championship (I think the other sports are easier in some sense because it is less likely at times that the best team actually wins). In basketball, I typically think the NBA champion is truly the best team (we could argue Golden State last year due to Curry's injury...but that is a rare exception, imo). In football, there are definitely years where the best team had a bad game and didn't even make the superbowl (baseball same thing...run into a hot team and the best team can fizzle out quickly).

 

 

You think they are the closest? How? We have different tv's man.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Their paths are both prayers and hope at this point. Call it "I have a dream". Odds are that 10 years down the road, nothing has happened.

 

 

Not true. If the Bears get the right QB, they have a chance. That's the way it goes. s***, even when the Sox were floundering the past few years they had a shot. If they could have snuck in the playoffs during 1 of those seasons, Sale and Q could pitch their way to a World Series. Both teams have a much better chance at championships in the near future than the Bulls do. I can't believe it's even a question in that sport.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yes. The problem with the NBA is that there are only about 3 or 4 teams with a legit shot at the title any particular year, if that. But OTOH, there are several teams one player off if that player is Lebron or Durant. If the Bulls somehow got one of them, suddenly they are legit contenders.

 

 

This is true. And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

[southsider2k5]

Not true. If the Bears get the right QB, they have a chance. That's the way it goes. s***, even when the Sox were floundering the past few years they had a shot. If they could have snuck in the playoffs during 1 of those seasons, Sale and Q could pitch their way to a World Series. Both teams have a much better chance at championships in the near future than the Bulls do. I can't believe it's even a question in that sport.

 

The entire NFL is a franchise QB away. I mean, that is literally day 1 stuff. Then factor in that despite where they finished, that guy doesn't exist in this years draft, this team is already years down the road without going anywhere.

[Dick Allen]

You think they are the closest? How? We have different tv's man.

Technically, the Bulls are one player away from being a legit title contender. It isn't realistic to think that player can be acquired, but it is true.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

This is true. And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

What if your uncle didn't have balls?

[Y2Jimmy0]

The entire NFL is a franchise QB away. I mean, that is literally day 1 stuff. Then factor in that despite where they finished, that guy doesn't exist in this years draft, this team is already years down the road without going anywhere.

 

 

I'm not sure that guy doesn't exist in this year's draft. Just something media people are saying that haven't watched enough film yet. Lots of groupthink going on with this year's QB class.

[Y2Jimmy0]

What if your uncle didn't have balls?

 

 

Then he'd be my aunt. Duh.

[Chisoxfn]

You think they are the closest? How? We have different tv's man.

I guess because I don't even know who the Bears QB is and the Sox went what 90 years without a title between years, so I'm not exactly ready to annoit them because they started a rebuilding plan this year and thanks to trading off all those parts finally have a top 5 farm system? I know a lot of those guys will bust and there is just as much likelihood that you turn into the Pirates / Royals (and end up sucking for 30 years). People tend to overrate / overhype unknown players. More so now that the Cubs became this, what would appear to be dynasty, but it wasn't just because they "tanked", they also spent a ton of money internationally and on free agents and lucked into Jake Arrietta (I'll call it luck although I'm sure they picked him for a reason, but no one can ever tell me they expected him to be the pitcher he was the past couple of years...just like I don't think RH / KW ever imagined Q would turn into the player he is).

 

Every top 50 prospect is going to be an all star...until they aren't. So I just have a more realistic view (in my opinion) as to what our prospects are worth and what they will amount to. If I viewed every one of our prospects that is top 100 being an all star, then yes, I could say the Sox have a great chance, but I think that is completely and utterly unrealistic. If a year from now Moncada is smashing 40 hr's and putting up a 1.000 OPS, Tim Anderson is hitting .330 and playing great defense, and Giolito / Lopez / Rodon are looking lights out, while Kopech / Collins are top prospects at their position (and we added more talent in the draft), then I can maybe make that statement...today I think it is utterly premature.

 

I think the current path for any of the three franchises to win a championship in the next few years is very unlikely, but if I were to bet on the most plausible scenario, I'd probably say the Bulls (and the odds would still be very low and would probably involve them landing a free agent now and then somehow getting an Anthony Davis or someone of that ilk via trade / free agency another couple years down the road...so not an immediate fix and probably pretty unlikely). They also would clearly need to start hitting on some draft picks as the Bulls would look much different if they hadn't whiffed on their recent 1st round picks.

[Kyyle23]

Not true. If the Bears get the right QB, they have a chance. That's the way it goes. s***, even when the Sox were floundering the past few years they had a shot. If they could have snuck in the playoffs during 1 of those seasons, Sale and Q could pitch their way to a World Series. Both teams have a much better chance at championships in the near future than the Bulls do. I can't believe it's even a question in that sport.

 

I dont understand how you can say all of the above here, and then in the next post say if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle.

 

You guys differ on who is closer to a championship, but none of us know which team is closest nor do we know how they get there. All any of us know is that Chicago sports (that this site currently follows) suck. The end

[Y2Jimmy0]

I am not sure 3 wins is very much indicative of the roster the Bears had to start the year. Not to dive in on this and detract from the Bulls discussion, the Bears could have easily been 6-10. They lost 5-7 games by a single possession. They lost their #1, #2 and #3 QBs for the year. They lost their #2 receiver and 1st round pick for the year. They lost their #1 WR and one of their best defenders for four games each to steroids. They lost perhaps their best player in Kyle Long for the whole year. They lost their TE for the year. They lost their C for year before the season started. They lost perhaps their best defender in McPhee for multiple games. They lost Trevethen for the year. They had the worst secondary. Yeah, I am making excuses for them and good teams win close games but this was a "when it rains it pours" season for the Bears. It was just one thing after another after another.

 

If the Bears have reasonable health next year and address the secondary they should improve incredibly. If they could find a QB, obviously huge task, they could compete for a champion pretty soon. The NFC isn't that tough a league. Finding a franchise QB is much easier that a superstar in the NBA. The best QBs after the top tier are from all across the draft. Wilson a 3rd rounder, Carr a 2nd rounder, Prescott a 4th rounder and Cousins was a 4th rounder. It's not like you need to pick in the first few picks to get a franchise-changing player like in the NBA. Bears have a strong front and some redeeming pieces on the offensive side. Just need to continue to accumulate depth and put their eggs in the right QB basket. Of course that's easier said than done but it's not as much of as an inhibitor of finding a superstar in the NBA.

 

The Sox, while baseball is a total different beast with the playoffs being a crapshoot, are on the right path at least. They in a clear, committed direction. They suck for a couple years and they should have a budding young core with more prospects in tow with a boatload of money and a pending TV deal around 2019. Far better plan than that of the Bulls whether they opt to keep or move Butler.

 

I completely agree with all of this.