Brexit

[Y2HH]

I'm actually kind of playing devil's advocate here.

 

My father was born in 1936 and my mother in 1929 and they both experienced the Great Depression and WWII, especially my mom. She's 87 now and would have a tiny government pension (she worked 20 years) if not for getting 60% of my father's. The most he ever made was $44,000 in one year as a GS tech writer at Rock Island Arsenal.

 

Yet somehow he was able to save quite a bit (I didn't realize how much until he passed away and I had to help my mom with investments) and that was with my mom not working except part-time at Hardee's and Bishop's Buffet (just for fun and to socialize with people). He always paid for EVERYTHING in cash, didn't believe in debt of any kind (except mortgage, which was paid back early)...and he also pushed me to study econ and started a retirement fund for me (Nicholas Funds out of Milwaukee) when I was in my early 20's.

 

I majored in English and minored in history and political science but didn't go to law school. My two best friends went to Northwestern, and I felt a bit disappointed but didn't push going there or Notre Dame because I felt it would be a waste of money, since Iowa's English program was one of the best and I also wanted to stay close to my g/f at the time.

 

Now that I understand how the world works and what my father was trying to teach me. I don't regret not going to one of those fancier schools because my whole life, I've worked as a teacher, non profit program director, for the Pittsburgh Pirates' minor league team in the SALLY League and for an NFL football player's charitable foundation. I've never made more than $50,000 one year in my life, but I've still been able to save money (despite traveling to 40 countries and living/working in six)...enough to get married twice, have a 16 month old baby at age 46 and have a pretty fulfilling life, all things considered. (Well, except for the White Sox, haha, minus 2005).

 

But yeah, I never took out a student loan in my life, and that was for my first wife from Russia to help her with her schooling (co-signer). And that was 50% about having a good credit history as much as really needing to take out a loan. I think I must have spent the same amount on 9 years of university (two Master's degrees and certification in American Humanics, which is non profit management) as my Chinese international prep school students spend for ONE year of education in high school, $15-17,500 USD.

 

You sound like a well disciplined, rational person in that case. You sound like you were raised very similarly to me. The only debt I have now is a 15yr mortgage which I just refinanced. I live below my means and my wife doesn't work (stays home with the kids).

 

You don't have to be rich to be successful in this country, which a lot of people seem to believe these days. We're both living proof of that.

 

[ptatc]

Agree.

 

 

 

Agree.

 

 

 

Disagree. The idea they don't owe anything? Absurd. They worked 30-40 years to earn that money AND paid taxes upon making it, spending it, or giving it away in various ways, such as property tax, sales tax, charitable contributions, etc. To pretend all of that money was just given to them and they "gave nothing back" is purely false. They already paid what they owed...it's not their fault the government squandered it on defense spending or whatever pork projects they had in mind when they got elected.

 

 

 

Disagree. Speaking as a 40 year old, no, I don't feel responsible to "passing off a worse country than how we found it", because it's not actually worse. I see more opportunity around today than ever before. People just aren't seizing on it because they want to play the role of starving artist like most young dreamers. It's time we started waking up to the reality that is the world, instead. I wanted to go to an out of state university like most of my friends at the time did...when I visited them I was like, "YES! This is what I want!" The truth is, however, I had no idea what I was talking about at the time, of course, I was just a kid...and "life experiences" were more important to me than setting the stage for my future.

 

Fortunately, (yes, fortunately) I couldn't afford it...and I wasn't about to take out a bunch of student loans because I was taught debt is dumb growing up...so I went to an in state school that was WAY cheaper. Instead of chasing dreams via liberal arts courses and graduating with a worthless degree and tens of thousands of student loan debt, I decided it was time to grow up a bit and be the adult I wanted people to treat me like. I went to DeVry full time while working nights AND weekends and I learned a trade that would be useful to the world. Was my life one huge party back then? No. If I wasn't at school, I was taking the train to work, and if I wasn't at work, I was likely at school or sleeping.

 

 

 

Again agree...I'm not fond of the way our government runs. I'm not a fan of our insane defense spending, nor am I a fan of subsidies and corporate welfare. I wish they'd take that money and use it for better purposes, such as research, staffing national parks, and perhaps trade programs as a alternative choice to overpriced college degrees which are often useless.

 

But to blame the older generation as if "we" caused this mess is absurd. I really don't consider myself old yet, by the way. This money, be it in the form of real estate, savings, 401k's or pensions...wasn't handed too us for free. We earned it and paid our taxes/dues along the way. The way I look at money these days is they print enough of it...so it's out there for the taking, and if you look in the right places it's not all that hard to get.

 

Of my immediate friends, I'm the only one with a college education (if you want to call DeVry a true college education)...the others have high school diplomas and both make over 90k a year. How is that possible? They learned a skill the world cares about. Oh, and one of them grew up on welfare to boot, so let's not play the privilege card, either. The three of us grew up in blue collar Bridgeport, and not one of us has a "connected" city job...we all work white collar computer jobs.

 

Oh and as for Social Security, I also treat it as something I'll never receive...I trust our government as far as I can throw it with my future. If I receive a dollar a month when I retire from SS I'll consider it a win. In the mean time, I'm investing for retirement on my own...I don't plan on needing them.

Thank you. I don't even need to reply.

 

I really like your stance on social security, it's the same as my own. I never plan on it being there and am creating my own retirement plan.

[caulfield12]

That said, as far as SS goes...how many Americans can really be trusted to manage their own investments, if they just ended that program (more than likely, phased out) and privatized it?

 

25%?

 

Is it even that high? Do we want the government actively investing that money in the stock market (like here in China) to go for a higher rate of return instead of Treasuries/bonds?

 

It's also an area a lot of people don't learn enough about (money management, in general) in either high school or college.

[Y2HH]

That said, as far as SS goes...how many Americans can really be trusted to manage their own investments, if they just ended that program (more than likely, phased out) and privatized it?

 

25%?

 

Is it even that high? Do we want the government actively investing that money in the stock market (like here in China) to go for a higher rate of return instead of Treasuries/bonds?

 

It's also an area a lot of people don't learn enough about (money management, in general) in either high school or college.

 

There is a huge problem with this country/world when it comes to personal finance. I personally believe it should become part of a required curriculum in high school to equip people with some basic knowledge to be able to invest in themselves in the future.

 

The bigger problem isn't that people can't be trusted to do it on their own, it's that we trust a clearly incompetent government to do it for us. And no, I don't want to government lifting the rules of what they can invest in. Oh, they'd love to do it, because they'd disappear that money real fast if allowed too...it'd go the same way all that money for the Chicago pensions went...into the ether. Oops! Our bad!

 

The other issue is the media has brainwashed people into believing the markets are fixed and that the little man doesn't stand a chance. Which is utter bullocks. Are there things every person should know? Absolutely. Which is why we should be teaching them to everyone.

 

And it starts with debt. Do NOT borrow money. If you can't afford something, don't buy it. And this is outside the realm of some medical condition you have no say so in. I'm talking about the broke guy that lives at home, has no savings but somehow owns a brand new Lexus and complains about how the world is rigged against him. No, it's really not. You're rigged against yourself by comparing yourself to others instead of worrying about yourself.

 

If you try to keep up with he Joneses you'll someday find the Joneses were just as broke.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Y2HH

[caulfield12]

In terms of winning on individual stocks vs. insiders/institutional investors, there's no way Joe the Plumber can win.

 

It's like Las Vegas or Macau.

 

If we're talking about no-load mutual funds, like Vanguard/Oakmark/Legg Mason/Fidelity, etc., that's fine.

 

Simple rules, 100 minus your age should be in stocks/mutual funds/equities, the rest in bonds. No more than 10% of your money in any one stock/company. Hedge your investments with a small amount of gold/precious metals. No more than 25-30% (tops) going into real estate/mortgage.

 

Living here in China, there's no way in hell I would trust Alibaba, Baidu or any of the SOE's in terms of their numbers...no numbers can be trusted by banks, the government or individual companies. I invested in 500 shares of Tencent and 300 into Taiwan Semiconductor, but that's it, having lived here five years.

 

Everything else is in a basket of mutual funds and individual companies that pay higher dividends, like phone/utility and energy companies...with some gold (Gold Line is a total ripoff, that's one company my father got tricked by) coins, stamps, baseball cards, but mostly in mutual funds (75%) and 25% in individual stocks through Edward Jones (I make all the trades, never have let them buy a single thing, I make all the stock picking and selling decisions).

 

 

[ptatc]

In terms of winning on individual stocks vs. insiders/institutional investors, there's no way Joe the Plumber can win.

 

It's like Las Vegas or Macau.

 

If we're talking about no-load mutual funds, like Vanguard/Oakmark/Legg Mason/Fidelity, etc., that's fine.

 

Simple rules, 100 minus your age should be in stocks/mutual funds/equities, the rest in bonds. No more than 10% of your money in any one stock/company. Hedge your investments with a small amount of gold/precious metals. No more than 25-30% (tops) going into real estate/mortgage.

 

Living here in China, there's no way in hell I would trust Alibaba, Baidu or any of the SOE's in terms of their numbers...no numbers can be trusted by banks, the government or individual companies. I invested in 500 shares of Tencent and 300 into Taiwan Semiconductor, but that's it, having lived here five years.

 

Everything else is in a basket of mutual funds and individual companies that pay higher dividends, like phone/utility and energy companies...with some gold (Gold Line is a total ripoff, that's one company my father got tricked by) coins, stamps, baseball cards, but mostly in mutual funds (75%) and 25% in individual stocks through Edward Jones (I make all the trades, never have let them buy a single thing, I make all the stock picking and selling decisions).

Y2HH said it best: the simplistic way everyone can understand, don't spend more than you have.

[Y2HH]

In terms of winning on individual stocks vs. insiders/institutional investors, there's no way Joe the Plumber can win.

 

It's like Las Vegas or Macau.

 

If we're talking about no-load mutual funds, like Vanguard/Oakmark/Legg Mason/Fidelity, etc., that's fine.

 

Simple rules, 100 minus your age should be in stocks/mutual funds/equities, the rest in bonds. No more than 10% of your money in any one stock/company. Hedge your investments with a small amount of gold/precious metals. No more than 25-30% (tops) going into real estate/mortgage.

 

Living here in China, there's no way in hell I would trust Alibaba, Baidu or any of the SOE's in terms of their numbers...no numbers can be trusted by banks, the government or individual companies. I invested in 500 shares of Tencent and 300 into Taiwan Semiconductor, but that's it, having lived here five years.

 

Everything else is in a basket of mutual funds and individual companies that pay higher dividends, like phone/utility and energy companies...with some gold (Gold Line is a total ripoff, that's one company my father got tricked by) coins, stamps, baseball cards, but mostly in mutual funds (75%) and 25% in individual stocks through Edward Jones (I make all the trades, never have let them buy a single thing, I make all the stock picking and selling decisions).

 

This is Bogelite investing 101. I agree with it to a degree, but I disagree about not being able to win via individual stocks. While I wouldn't put all my money on one, I've done really well picking safe bargain plays over the years with a high number of individual stocks. I've missed on some that I never bought because their fundamentals didn't add up too me, but it's not like I lost money since I never bought them. I've lost on a few, don't get me wrong, but I've made far more than I've lost. I also know what I'm doing, and that being said, I'm not an insider...I just didn't chase the million dollar dream when I was fine with making thousands. And that's the mistake most make...they chase dreams and turn investing into gambling.

 

[Y2HH]

Y2HH said it best: the simplistic way everyone can understand, don't spend more than you have.

 

And what's truly ironic about this is it's the hardest part for most people. Because they compare themselves to their neighbor without knowing the facts. Neighbor just got a new car? I want one too! Never mind the fact that your neighbor doesn't own that car, a bank does. Let's go borrow to keep up with them!

 

No thanks. I have a 2007 and a 2011 vehicle, both bought used, both fully paid for. I don't care that my neighbor drives a nicer car than me...I care that mine is paid for.

[caulfield12]

This is Bogelite investing 101. I agree with it to a degree, but I disagree about not being able to win via individual stocks. While I wouldn't put all my money on one, I've done really well picking safe bargain plays over the years with a high number of individual stocks. I've missed on some that I never bought because their fundamentals didn't add up too me, but it's not like I lost money since I never bought them. I've lost on a few, don't get me wrong, but I've made far more than I've lost. I also know what I'm doing, and that being said, I'm not an insider...I just didn't chase the million dollar dream when I was fine with making thousands. And that's the mistake most make...they chase dreams and turn investing into gambling.

 

I think another mistake people in their 20's and 30's make it thinking they HAVE to discover the "next big thing," some tech company in Silicon Valley that's going to change the world and the way in which we live. Like Theranos, although that's obviously a privately-held one.

 

Instead, it would have been easier just to have picked a blue chip company like Johnson & Johnson that manufactures products everyone understands (another Buffet idea, don't invest in something you can't explain in one minute or less) and has had a great rate of return for the last 20-25 years or so.

Edited June 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[Y2HH]

I think another mistake people in their 20's and 30's make it thinking they HAVE to discover the "next big thing," some tech company in Silicon Valley that's going to change the world and the way in which we live.

 

Instead, it would have been easier just to have picked a blue chip company like Johnson & Johnson that manufactures products everyone understands (another Buffet idea, don't invest in something you can't explain in one minute or less) and has had a great rate of return for the last 20-25 years or so.

 

Exactly, that's chasing the million dollar dream. I don't invest that way. Can you get lucky? Sure. Bit odds are against it...and in Vegas we call that gambling.

[Balta1701]

Exactly, that's chasing the million dollar dream. I don't invest that way. Can you get lucky? Sure. Bit odds are against it...and in Vegas we call that gambling.

But if you sign up for Trump University we will teach you to beat this system! And I'm investing in Gold like the Fox commercials tell me!

 

(Calmly walks away)

[Y2HH]

But if you sign up for Trump University we will teach you to beat this system! And I'm investing in Gold like the Fox commercials tell me!

 

(Calmly walks away)

 

When a snake tries to sell you oil that's proven to be able to do anything...I'd not just calmly walk away, I'd run.

[southsider2k5]

But if you sign up for Trump University we will teach you to beat this system! And I'm investing in Gold like the Fox commercials tell me!

 

(Calmly walks away)

 

Which is funny, because Gold is up a lot this year, and especially after Brexit.

[StrangeSox]

Which is funny, because Gold is up a lot this year, and especially after Brexit.

still well below the early 2010's level when all of the snake oil guys were saying that gold can only go up!

[Y2HH]

Which is funny, because Gold is up a lot this year, and especially after Brexit.

 

By a lot you mean by a lot less than the average stock.

[bmags]

I continue to be floored by a couple of things outside of the actual decision:

- That major banks and financial businesses did not seem to conduct their own polling to help hedge any leave decision

- That there have been no think tanks or teams that have outlined any vision for what the exit may have looked like

 

This HAD been a discussion for 2 years. It's striking to me that it appears as if no institutions bothered to assume leave was a possibility. To hear them talk right now, this is starting from zero.

[ptatc]

I continue to be floored by a couple of things outside of the actual decision:

- That major banks and financial businesses did not seem to conduct their own polling to help hedge any leave decision

- That there have been no think tanks or teams that have outlined any vision for what the exit may have looked like

 

This HAD been a discussion for 2 years. It's striking to me that it appears as if no institutions bothered to assume leave was a possibility. To hear them talk right now, this is starting from zero.

They have a couple of years to figure it out, if it actually happens. Maybe these large institutions know more of the behind the scenes activity and still doubt it will actually happen.

[Y2HH]

I continue to be floored by a couple of things outside of the actual decision:

- That major banks and financial businesses did not seem to conduct their own polling to help hedge any leave decision

- That there have been no think tanks or teams that have outlined any vision for what the exit may have looked like

 

This HAD been a discussion for 2 years. It's striking to me that it appears as if no institutions bothered to assume leave was a possibility. To hear them talk right now, this is starting from zero.

 

What's hilarious is they actually priced in a market bump because they expected a remain vote...which is baffling in and of itself.

[Chisoxfn]

Now I see the issue. Every generation claims the same things.

 

If you are looking to the WWII vets to save money, I hate to tell you hut there aren't enough left to make a big difference and if you think they are making enough money to make a difference you are mistaken. Besides I was referring to the current group of people who graduated from college in the 70s who are retiring not going that far back to a generation where there a4e so few left.

 

College costs have always gone up and graduates always claim the same burden. In my profession, the starting salary has douhled while the cost of school has gone up 50% in the last 30 years.

 

Studies have shown that many retirees have to get part time jobs just to afford to live. Taking money from the old who can't affird it just to make the young people lives more affordable is not a way to help the economy. They need to work their way up the food chain just like every generation.

I'm curious on your cost of school statistics. I graduated just over 10 years ago, and tuition at my school has doubled (so can't even fathom the 50% increase as what I'm talking about is largely relative to the entire cal state system...I didn't go to a private school). I'll just look at my alma mater over the past 10 years. Today's annual tuition is 5,472. The last year I went there (05/06), it was $2520 (and that was up a good chunk from when I started in 02).

 

http://calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fe...n-history.shtml

[CrimsonWeltall]

I'm curious on your cost of school statistics.

 

Same. I graduated from U of I 10 years ago and the tuition there more than doubled over that time. What school has only seen tuition up 50% in 30 years? That's less than inflation.

[bigruss]

From U of I's public affairs site:

 

Freshmen

2013-2014* $11,834

2012-2013* $11,636

2011-2012* $11,104

2010-2011* $10,386

2009-2010* $9,484

2008-2009* $9,242

2007-2008* $8,440

2006-2007* $7,708

2005-2006* $7,042

2004-2005* $6,460

2003-2004 $5,568

2002-2003 $5,302

2001-2002 $4,410

2000-2001 $3,724

1999-2000 $3,546

1998-1999 $3,408

1997-1998 $3,308

1996-1997 $3,150

1995-1996 $3,000

1994-1995 $2,760

1993-1994 $2,486

1992-1993 $2,486

1991-1992 $2,236

1990-1991 $2,130

1989-1990 $2,130

1988-1989 $2,070

1987-1988 $1,470

1986-1987 $1,406

 

 

Yikes.

[bmags]

More "not-thought-out" consequences from Leave:

https://storify.com/shockproofbeats/why-didnt

[StrangeSox]

Heard the leavers described as "a dog that actually caught the car"

[bmags]

Perhaps they could pull a costanza, and just show up at the next EU meeting acting like nothing happened. What us? Quit? Naw. What's next.

[caulfield12]

World economy in one depressing chart...obvious takeaway is how Russia and Brazil have underperformed

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/world-econo...ne-chart-2016-6

Edited June 28, 2016 by caulfield12