The White Sox Hidden Catastrophe-Fangraphs

[Y2Jimmy0]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...en-catastrophe/

[Dam8610]

It's nice when statistics confirm that a trend you notice isn't just in your head. Anyone think the Sox could put a package together for Lucroy? I know it would have to include Fulmer, but even with him, do the Sox have the pieces to make it work?

[GGajewski18]

It's nice when statistics confirm that a trend you notice isn't just in your head. Anyone think the Sox could put a package together for Lucroy? I know it would have to include Fulmer, but even with him, do the Sox have the pieces to make it work?

 

I think Derek Norris would help too. Decent hitter and really good at pitch framing.

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah, this has been a disaster. Makes my excited catcher SoxNet article from the winter look dumb.

[Special K]

How much again did we pay per year for the privilege of those 2? $4 million? Had we allocated that on a per year basis to someone like Gordon, perhaps it would've made the difference. Would be fine with Flowers in that instance.

[ptatc]

Yeah, this has been a disaster. Makes my excited catcher SoxNet article from the winter look dumb.

Another KW/Hahn front office (notice both names) plan that looked good on paper but has fallen flat on it's face, so far.

[Kyyle23]

How much again did we pay per year for the privilege of those 2? $4 million? Had we allocated that on a per year basis to someone like Gordon, perhaps it would've made the difference. Would be fine with Flowers in that instance.

 

They offered more to Gordon than KC did, and he chose to go back.

[chw42]

Yeah, this has been a disaster. Makes my excited catcher SoxNet article from the winter look dumb.

 

Navarro is possibly the worst framer in baseball. He catches the ball weird and doesn't even pretend to frame it most of the time. But then again, umpires need to stop getting fooled by catchers and just call it where it crosses.

[harfman77]

How much again did we pay per year for the privilege of those 2? $4 million? Had we allocated that on a per year basis to someone like Gordon, perhaps it would've made the difference. Would be fine with Flowers in that instance.

 

You are paying them what you would have had to pay Flowers.

[ChiSox59]

While I agree the Sox catchers have been pretty terrible, its a funny day to post this after Avila goes 4/5. At least his bat is coming around - man was he terrible the first 2 months of the year.

[Lillian]

It's nice when statistics confirm that a trend you notice isn't just in your head. Anyone think the Sox could put a package together for Lucroy? I know it would have to include Fulmer, but even with him, do the Sox have the pieces to make it work?

 

It may not take that much in talent, as Lucroy will be a free agent after next season, and the Brewers are reportedly shopping him. However, they would want young talent in return. The key may be that they are eager to move Braun's salary. I've been advocating taking both of them, and all of the salary, which could mitigate the need to give up much talent. Although Braun would be an overpay, and a long term commitment, Lucroy's very affordable contract would make a package of both very intriguing.

 

You put Braun in the outfield, Lucroy behind the plate and Morneau at DH and you have transformed this anemic offense into an impressive lineup.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Lillian

[ChiSox59]

It may not take that much in talent, as Lucroy will be a free agent after next season, and the Brewers are reportedly shopping him. However, they would want young talent in return. The key may be that they are eager to move Braun's salary. I've been advocating taking both of them, and all of the salary, which could mitigate the need to give up much talent. Although Braun would be an overpay, and a long term commitment, Lucroy's very affordable contract would make a package of both very intriguing.

 

You put Braun in the outfield, Lucroy behind the plate and Morneau at DH and you have transformed this anemic offense into an impressive lineup.

 

Braun and Lucroy would require Fulmer and Anderson, plus. It ain't happening.

[OmarComing25]

Robot umps please, I still find it ridiculous that a huge part of a catcher's value is his ability to fool the ump, that shouldn't be part of the sport. By far my least favorite part of baseball.

Edited June 24, 2016 by OmarComing25

[Lillian]

Braun and Lucroy would require Fulmer and Anderson, plus. It ain't happening.

 

I'm not going to dispute that, but I wonder on what you base your assertion. It was my understanding that the Brewers are very desirous of moving Braun's salary.

How can they expect to accomplish that, and still get a couple of top prospects?

[Dick Allen]

I'm not going to dispute that, but I wonder on what you base your assertion. It was my understanding that the Brewers are very desirous of moving Braun's salary.

How can they expect to accomplish that, and still get a couple of top prospects?

Lucroy is their one chip for good prospects. I don't think they would substitute eating all of Braun's money for taking good prospects, especially since Braun is having a good year.

[ChiSox59]

I'm not going to dispute that, but I wonder on what you base your assertion. It was my understanding that the Brewers are very desirous of moving Braun's salary.

How can they expect to accomplish that, and still get a couple of top prospects?

 

Lucroy alone is probably worth at least of one Fulmer or Anderson (plus some) - I am sure that the Brewers would ask for both. And the Brewers aren't just going to give Braun away for salary relief.

[Lillian]

Lucroy alone is probably worth at least of one Fulmer or Anderson (plus some) - I am sure that the Brewers would ask for both. And the Brewers aren't just going to give Braun away for salary relief.

 

Perhaps you are correct, in asserting that the Brewers wouldn't give up Lucroy without asking for a ransom. However, they may be willing to indeed move Braun for not much more than salary relief. According to an article in today's MLB Traderumors, by Steve Adams, they might want to move Braun's salary in order to achieve the financial flexibility to try to resign Lucroy. Here is what he wrote:

 

"While Jonathan Lucroy is perhaps the most-cited trade candidate in baseball, GM David Stearns tells Heyman that an extension can’t be entirely ruled out. Heyman notes that if the Brewers are able to move Ryan Braun, they could look to reallocate some of those funds to locking up Lucroy, who is more open to an extension now that the Brewers are performing better than most pundits expected. There could, of course, be some level of gamesmanship there, as it would make sense for any team official to downplay a prime trade target’s availability."

 

Would you be in favor of taking on all of Braun's contract, if it didn't require giving up any significant talent?

[ChiSox59]

Perhaps you are correct, in asserting that the Brewers wouldn't give up Lucroy without asking for a ransom. However, they may be willing to indeed move Braun for not much more than salary relief. According to an article in today's MLB Traderumors, by Steve Adams, they might want to move Braun's salary in order to achieve the financial flexibility to try to resign Lucroy. Here is what he wrote:

 

"While Jonathan Lucroy is perhaps the most-cited trade candidate in baseball, GM David Stearns tells Heyman that an extension can’t be entirely ruled out. Heyman notes that if the Brewers are able to move Ryan Braun, they could look to reallocate some of those funds to locking up Lucroy, who is more open to an extension now that the Brewers are performing better than most pundits expected. There could, of course, be some level of gamesmanship there, as it would make sense for any team official to downplay a prime trade target’s availability."

 

Would you be in favor of taking on all of Braun's contract, if it didn't require giving up any significant talent?

 

Sure, but I doubt it'll happen.

[Texsox]

I can only think of a few Sox catchers to play in the all-star game

 

AJ, Fisk a few times, and Lollar for about a decade. Bears QBs and Sox catchers are about the same.

[caulfield12]

Charles Johnson, 2000.

 

But he was an All-Star w/ the Orioles that year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I can only think of a few Sox catchers to play in the all-star game

 

AJ, Fisk a few times, and Lollar for about a decade. Bears QBs and Sox catchers are about the same.

 

Ed Herrmann 1974

[Texsox]

Ed Herrmann 1974

 

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed it. I don't remember that and that was during my studying everything on the back of a baseball card and reading every boxscore days

[kitekrazy]

I can only think of a few Sox catchers to play in the all-star game

 

AJ, Fisk a few times, and Lollar for about a decade. Bears QBs and Sox catchers are about the same.

 

I think it's been that way in baseball for over a decade. At one time the casual baseball fan to name a few catchers. It's not that way anymore. If they can hit they want to move them to another position. If there was another modern day Munson or Fisk I bet most organizations would turn them into OF or 1B.

 

[ptatc]

I think it's been that way in baseball for over a decade. At one time the casual baseball fan to name a few catchers. It's not that way anymore. If they can hit they want to move them to another position. If there was another modern day Munson or Fisk I bet most organizations would turn them into OF or 1B.

Hawk tried.