Trayce Thompson/Montas

[caulfield12]

Thompson has finally fallen below the mythical 800 OPS number this year, and his average is nearing the .230's.

 

Career OPS still of 839, but the real Trayce is returning, PROBABLY.

 

Plus with Puig back from DL/Pederson/Van Slyke/Hernandez/Venable and eventually Ethier...he's going to fall back to a bench/PH/spot starter role.

 

 

And, according to DA, Montas broke some more ribs/had a setback.

 

 

 

[GGajewski18]

How'd I know this was started by you?

[Soxnfins]

I'm definitely tired of seeing this argument, but you have a point. Trayce and Montas really aren't anything special. Frazier has been the Modern day Jack Clark, but we still may have gotten a little ahead on this trade, pending Montas. That being said, I want Hahn to make a bold move to either buy or sell and determine the direction of this team. Do something. Show some conviction and not sit around, which he's trying, but he needs to make a statement.

[Jose Abreu]

Thompson has finally fallen below the mythical 800 OPS number this year, and his average is nearing the .230's.

 

Career OPS still of 839, but the real Trayce is returning, PROBABLY.

This is the real Trayce. His fluky hitting ended.

[caulfield12]

And ultimately, the problem lies with the timing.

 

Market's not developed yet, and we've got three teams ahead of us in the standings all equally or more motivated to make moves to improve themselves, the Royals in particular with their starting pitching at the back end (easier fix than an 800+ OPS hitter or a solid 7th/8th inning set-up guy).

 

That doesn't even count Boston, Toronto, NY Yankees, Baltimore, the Rangers (need starting pitching with Colby Lewis out and two other pitchers with uncertain status, including Darvish) and Mariners and POSSIBLY the Angels, although we're close to the point where they can be called "dead in the water" with all their issues. If it's NOT the Rangers or the Red Sox, the Astros might be the best team in the AL right now and they're also looking to improve their weaknesses.

 

 

Finally, Tim Lincecum, two days ago, went 3 IP, 7 hits, 4 ER, 2 BB, 2 K's and took a loss against the A's (high pitch count victim). Marcus Semien hit his 13th homer for the winning side and is hovering around the batting average we expected out of Todd Frazier in the AL.

Edited June 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[Quin]

Hero worshipers.

 

All of you.

[bmags]

Welcome to caulfields thought bubble, today, June 25th

[caulfield12]

Haha...well, I'm not even sure how to feel about it.

 

On one hand, we were hoping against hope that Trayce would prove immune somehow to being dragged back into alignment with his minor league numbers...that, just magically, something had clicked and he'd taken his game to the next level.

 

If the White Sox could have produced an All-Star position player, even with another team in another league, it would almost have been heartening. It would have sucked, too, knowing another team was enjoying the benefit of his cheap, cost-controlled services, but it would have been a huge positive sign for the farm system, some type of indicator things were "ticking" up.

 

Obviously, Hahn wasn't GM when Trayce was picked, it was part of a KW drafting athletic trend (Mitchell/Walker, Mike Jacobs from th Red Sox, etc.)

 

 

Montas out another 4-8 weeks after missing three months (February-April)...PTAC alarmed

http://www.truebluela.com/2016/6/24/120265...odgers-4-8-weks

Edited June 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[greg775]

This is the real Trayce. His fluky hitting ended.

There just aren't many good hitters out there anymore in the post steroid era. It's crazy. Remember when Eaton was at .320? Isn't he about .250 now and he's a pretty good player. I guess it's why defense and bullpen win games now. The hitting is so bad it doesn't matter IF you can catch everything and you've got 3 standout starters couple with a great closer and at least two EFFECTIVE setup men. That's all you need. Hardly anybody can hit.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I still make this trade 10/10. Montas can't stay healthy now. Thompson is falling back to earth and what he really is. Selling high was just fine by Hahn.

[soxforlife05]

There just aren't many good hitters out there anymore in the post steroid era. It's crazy. Remember when Eaton was at .320? Isn't he about .250 now and he's a pretty good player. I guess it's why defense and bullpen win games now. The hitting is so bad it doesn't matter IF you can catch everything and you've got 3 standout starters couple with a great closer and at least two EFFECTIVE setup men. That's all you need. Hardly anybody can hit.

 

There are plenty of good hitters out there. We just can't develop them and/or won't pay top dollar to sign them.

 

The best teams in the AL - BAL, BOS, TEX all have good offenses. Mostly because they have committed to developing hitting talent and have had great success at it. CLE is the only exception. They have some overperforming vets mixed in with some nice young players and a good starting staff. Pretty much what the Sox formula should have been - but the problem is Cleveland can develop some hitting talent to fill some holes while the Sox have made some aggressive trades that haven't worked out and have sparingly turned out lineup regulars. KC has an overperforming starting pitching and lineup. Their bullpen is good though. Don't see any way they are in the mix at the end of this season. I'm very confident that BAL, BOS, TEX, and CLE are the playoff teams.

 

Sox will again be middle of the pack where most people expected them to be before the season. Not bad enough to blow it up but not good enough to really contend.

Edited June 26, 2016 by soxforlife05

[RockRaines]

Welcome to caulfields thought bubble, today, June 25th

[LittleHurt05]

Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray, South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio

[GreenSox]

Thompson's numbers probably will fall into his minor league form - mid .700 OPS and play excellent defense. Now will Frazier exceed that? Probably, but for 2 years. Decent move if you are a contender.

 

Re development, this idea that the Sox can develop pitching...well, it sure would be nice to see it. Sure they have Rodon, but he was also the #3 pick. The biggest weakness is on the major league team is starting pitching - only 3 ML starters on the staff. On the other hand, the Sox have produced Trayce, Semien, Saladino, in the last 3 years; all will have some role on a major league team. Anderson looks like a player (and if he would take some pitches/walks he could be a star player). The Sox can't even fill a bullpen spot comfortably from the minors (I have some hope for Beck).

Edited June 26, 2016 by GreenSox

[soxforlife05]

Thompson's numbers probably will fall into his minor league form - mid .700 OPS and play excellent defense. Now will Frazier exceed that? Probably, but for 2 years. Decent move if you are a contender.

 

Re development, this idea that the Sox can develop pitching...well, it sure would be nice to see it. Sure they have Rodon, but he was also the #3 pick. The biggest weakness is on the major league team is starting pitching - only 3 ML starters on the staff. On the other hand, the Sox have produced Trayce, Semien, Saladino, in the last 3 years; all will have some role on a major league team. Anderson looks like a player (and if he would take some pitches/walks he could be a star player). The Sox can't even fill a bullpen spot comfortably from the minors (I have some hope for Beck).

 

Those are all bottom of the order hitters on a winning team. Saladino at this point is more of a utility player. Anderson looks good but will get exposed eventually if he doesn't improve his plate discipline.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Yeah, Anderson still doesn't have a walk but has a pretty decent OPS considering all of it is coming from BA and XBH.

 

Chris Devenski has a 2.26 ERA for the suddenly white-hot Astros, now pitching out of their pen. He would definitely be a help to the current Sox struggles in middle relief.

 

Don Cooper also doesn't get much credit for Hector Santiago (ironically, gave up Semien's 14th homer today as I was writing), but he was one of his biggest advocates in the beginning, particularly about being a successful starter at the MLB level.

 

 

But yeah, it has been a long time since the days of Reed/Santos/Nate Jones or even Marte/Thornton/Jenks. 2012 was the last season IMO that Cooper was a really good pitching coach (especially the pen that year), extracting the most from all of those rookie pitchers. Addison Reed, somewhat surprisingly after AZ, has become a mainstay and 8th inning set-up guy for the Mets.

Edited June 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[soxforlife05]

Yeah, Anderson still doesn't have a walk but has a pretty decent OPS considering all of it is coming from BA and XBH.

 

I'm kind of skeptical of hitters before there's a major league scouting report floating around on them. Eventually they'll just let him start trying to hit pitches out of the zone like they did to Abreu earlier this season.

 

With all the hype he still probably won't put up a better first season than Gordon Beckham did.

Edited June 26, 2016 by soxforlife05

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, Anderson still doesn't have a walk but has a pretty decent OPS considering all of it is coming from BA and XBH.

 

Chris Devenski has a 2.26 ERA for the suddenly white-hot Astros, now pitching out of their pen. He would definitely be a help to the current Sox struggles in middle relief.

 

Don Cooper also doesn't get much credit for Hector Santiago (ironically, gave up Semien's 14th homer today as I was writing), but he was one of his biggest advocates in the beginning, particularly about being a successful starter at the MLB level.

 

 

But yeah, it has been a long time since the days of Reed/Santos/Nate Jones or even Marte/Thornton/Jenks. 2012 was the last season IMO that Cooper was a really good pitching coach (especially the pen that year), extracting the most from all of those rookie pitchers. Addison Reed, somewhat surprisingly after AZ, has become a mainstay and 8th inning set-up guy for the Mets.

 

Hecor Santiago 5,27 ERA and loves to give up the long ball, not a good match with the White Sox. A genius Hahn trade.

 

[caulfield12]

They were just talking about it on the Astros' broadcast, about how Tyler White was Rookie of the Month in April and then the rest of the league adjusted and he couldn't adjust back.

 

The book on Anderson is quickly becoming he can hit a fastball...but surely he will start seeing a steady diet of breaking pitches, even when ahead in the count.

 

We're also seeing that readjustment period with Trayce...the pattern (twice now) has been a white hot month, followed by a 500ish OPS. Extremely streaky.

Edited June 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Hecor Santiago 5,27 ERA and loves to give up the long ball, not a good match with the White Sox. A genius Hahn trade.

 

 

You can read the current Paul Sullivan article at the Chicago Tribune and write in a letter to the editor to defend his true "genuis" if you like.

 

In some ways, they were fortunate to have acquired Jackson, because we never would have found out Eaton is one of the top 3 RFers in baseball without that move. I think most everyone has been shocked by how good his throwing arm plays from there, as compared to center.

[soxforlife05]

They were just talking about it on the Astros' broadcast, about how Tyler White was Rookie of the Month in April and then the rest of the league adjusted and he couldn't adjust back.

 

The book on Anderson is quickly becoming he can hit a fastball...but surely he will start seeing a steady diet of breaking pitches, even when ahead in the count.

 

We're also seeing that readjustment period with Trayce...the pattern (twice now) has been a white hot month, followed by a 500ish OPS. Extremely streaky.

 

That was a big part of the reason why I was ok with trading Trayce for Frazier in the offseason. Late season callup who likely wasn't paid attention to much by scouts until the very end of the season. He's been a little better than advertised this season, but I think it would be a stretch to expect him to outperform his AAA numbers unless he miraculously figures things out.

Edited June 26, 2016 by soxforlife05

[Dick Allen]

You can read the current Paul Sullivan article at the Chicago Tribune and write in a letter to the editor to defend his true "genuis" if you like.

 

In some ways, they were fortunate to have acquired Jackson, because we never would have found out Eaton is one of the top 3 RFers in baseball without that move. I think most everyone has been shocked by how good his throwing arm plays from there, as compared to center.

The fact of the matter he made a great trade and a tremendous extension when it came to Eaton.

[caulfield12]

That was a big part of the reason why I was ok with trading Trayce for Frazier in the offseason. Late season callup who likely wasn't paid attention to much by scouts until the very end of the season. He's been a little better than advertised this season, but I think it would be a stretch to expect him to outperform his AAA numbers unless he miraculously figures things out.

 

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...Trayce-Thompson

 

A 748 career minor league OPS and those K numbers over an extended number of minor league seasons...pretty doubtful you'd find many historical examples of someone out OPSing their MILB totals by 150 basis points, although that's what has happened for roughly one half of a full MLB season now.

 

Jose Iglesias did it with DET for one year, but has since returned back to earth.

Edited June 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Those are all bottom of the order hitters on a winning team. Saladino at this point is more of a utility player. Anderson looks good but will get exposed eventually if he doesn't improve his plate discipline.

Agree on Anderson. But the floor is high - he'll be Alexei if he doesn't develop plate discipline.

Those guys are bottom level hitters on a winning team...but a lot better than our bottom level hitters. It's a dubious proposition to trade those guys when your replace them with sub .700 hitters.

And as it is, the Rangers and Indians only have a few guys each exceeding .800 OPS. They are an important part.

Sox just need more depth.

 

Yes, the Eaton trade was excellent. I think Arizona has the best farm system in baseball. They churn out talent year after year...they make a lot of bad trades, but they still have a lot of young talent.

Edited June 27, 2016 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/...eveland-indians

 

The Indians currently have 3 regulars over an 800 OPS.

The key difference is in that 750-800 OPS range, which is where the majority of the team sit.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/...S/texas-rangers

The Rangers also have 3, not including Choo, who has been injured, and role players.

 

Can also see that grouping of 750-800, minus the struggles from Fielder and Moreland to a lesser extent.