Tim Anderson

[knightni]

Just think if we had Anderson, Semien and Trayce! Wow we'd be excited and praising our system. Instead, two horrific trades letting Trayce and Semien go. As much as we rail on our system, we had 3 studs right there home grown and let two go.

Getting Todd Frazier is far from horrific.

 

Samardzija was not a poor deal at the time, either. He just under-performed.

[Dick Allen]

Just think if we had Anderson, Semien and Trayce! Wow we'd be excited and praising our system. Instead, two horrific trades letting Trayce and Semien go. As much as we rail on our system, we had 3 studs right there home grown and let two go.

Frazier sucks, correct? Want to know something funny? Frazier has a higher OBP than Trayce.

[Jose Abreu]

Just think if we had Anderson, Semien and Trayce! Wow we'd be excited and praising our system. Instead, two horrific trades letting Trayce and Semien go. As much as we rail on our system, we had 3 studs right there home grown and let two go.

Have you looked at Trayce's numbers lately? The dude has been horrific.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Just think if we had Anderson, Semien and Trayce! Wow we'd be excited and praising our system. Instead, two horrific trades letting Trayce and Semien go. As much as we rail on our system, we had 3 studs right there home grown and let two go.

 

Have you looked at Trayce Thompson's stats lately. He is not very good. Other than a hot two week stretch in May he has been pretty horrible this year. Take out that hot stretch and he has an anemic .202/.283/.362 slash line. He is far from a stud and probably should not be an every day player.

[Quin]

lol Greg

[hogan873]

Frazier sucks, correct? Want to know something funny? Frazier has a higher OBP than Trayce.

Yeah, he sucks. On pace for 46 HRs and 104 RBIs. Low BA or not, those kind of numbers help a team win.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Just think if we had Anderson, Semien and Trayce! Wow we'd be excited and praising our system. Instead, two horrific trades letting Trayce and Semien go. As much as we rail on our system, we had 3 studs right there home grown and let two go.

 

 

Trayce Thompson isn't that good. The White Sox rightfully sold high. He started the season off well but has fallen off since. On the year Trayce is: .738 OPS, 100 wRC+, 13 homers, 0.4 fWAR. Todd Frazier in a down year for him is trending upward and looks like this: .781 OPS, 104 wRC+, 0.9 fWAR, and he's on pace to hit 45 homers. I'll take Frazier.

[Jake]

In Greg's defense, the Shark trade had loss all over it from the start

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I don't know about that.

 

Semien was a guy everyone seemed to like and were upset about losing but the thought process was we have Micah/Sanchez/Anderson and you have to give to get. Phegley was a guy who could have been outrighted off the 40. Bassit was a guy I know I was upset about losing but most thought he was a fringe arm. Ravelo had some upset but a lot wrote him off due to lack of position or power. Samardzija performed to his 20-30% percentile probably.

I agree. Semien was a butcher at SS, Phegley is a backup catcher. Ravelo I was on the fence about.

 

As for the Frazier trade I thought Hahn selling high on those guys was a good decision. Micah couldn't stay healthy and Lawrie is a better fit for us. Montas has been hurt all year. Trayce has come back to earth.

 

 

I agreed with both trades and still can't be mad at them. Shark just didn't work out. It happens. Win some lose some.

 

Frazier's average is bad and has an unusually low amount of doubles but I think both will come back to his normal numbers or close. Maybe not double so much but I think he'll have a better half. If we didn't have him this season? Ouch. This team would be a lot worse off.

Edited July 11, 2016 by SouthSideSale

[greg775]

Have you looked at Trayce Thompson's stats lately. He is not very good. Other than a hot two week stretch in May he has been pretty horrible this year. Take out that hot stretch and he has an anemic .202/.283/.362 slash line. He is far from a stud and probably should not be an every day player.

He's 25 years old and has 13 home runs. That screams 20 home runs at the break at the Cell! The power would be nice and we know he can play D. Soxtalk is hard on young playes.

 

I agree. Semien was a butcher at SS

Hey, Soxtalk is hard on the younguns. The A's fans LOVE his defense this year. He has 19 fricking home runs. We've left a ton of home runs on the table in Trayce and Semien for the Cell. We've got a guy with some pop in Saladino who we don't even play. Avi is useless and Saladino should be roaming right field for now if he can read a fly ball at all.

[caulfield12]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...false/minpa/250

 

Going by WAR, Thompson is 41st out of the 66 MLB outfielders with over 250 PA's at 0.8. Over a full season, roughly 1.5.

By OPS, 47th.

 

That still has a lot of value, for a first/second year player with a dirt cheap contract. It means he would be right around the middle of statistical comparison with "second outfielders" on most MLB teams...with many non-qualified players putting up lower numbers, the same as we talk about with pitchers all the time and how many with terrible stats don't show up because they don't record enough innings to qualify.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...false/minpa/250

There are a ton of "big names" with large contracts on this list behind Thompson. And a lot of them play in better parks for offense than Dodgers' stadium, especially night games when the marine layer comes in (more impact in SD, but still affects LA, SF and Safeco).

 

 

Marcus Semien has been around the 13th or 14th SS going by WAR/OPS on a consistent basis, nearly all season long...and those numbers would be even better playing 81 home games at USCF vs. O.Co. That also has a LOT of value.

Edited July 12, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Thompson also had a lot of game-winning hits during that hot streak.

 

Should we take all of those wins of the board, too...because they happened in one "hot stretch"?

 

Couldn't we do that with 80-90% of pitchers and hitters?

 

Let's just put it this way. The Dodgers are confident enough in him, Pederson, Kendrick and eventually Ethier to trade Puig now.

[greg775]

Thompson also had a lot of game-winning hits during that hot streak.

 

Should we take all of those wins of the board, too...because they happened in one "hot stretch"?

 

Couldn't we do that with 80-90% of pitchers and hitters?

 

Let's just put it this way. The Dodgers are confident enough in him, Pederson, Kendrick and eventually Ethier to trade Puig now.

Nice post. I'm 'just saying' that it's pretty sad that our organization, which has horrible minor leagues, could right now have younguns playing in Anderson, Thompson and Semien. They all could be in the lineup. That's three positions filled for quite some time to come. That goes with our homegrown pitchers who have made it.

[Dunt]

Thompson also had a lot of game-winning hits during that hot streak.

 

Should we take all of those wins of the board, too...because they happened in one "hot stretch"?

 

Couldn't we do that with 80-90% of pitchers and hitters?

 

Let's just put it this way. The Dodgers are confident enough in him, Pederson, Kendrick and eventually Ethier to trade Puig now.

 

As they should be, Puig is the player people thought he was going to be

 

[FT35]

Thompson also had a lot of game-winning hits during that hot streak.

 

Should we take all of those wins of the board, too...because they happened in one "hot stretch"?

 

Couldn't we do that with 80-90% of pitchers and hitters?

 

Let's just put it this way. The Dodgers are confident enough in him, Pederson, Kendrick and eventually Ethier to trade Puig now.

 

 

I think the main reason LA is considering dumping Puig has less to do with Thompson and more to do with the fact that they are realizing that outside of a 2-month stretch when he debuted, Puig is just not that good. He struggles to stay on the field and he is a PR nightmare. His best asset (in my opinion) is his arm--it's the only skill that stands out. He's never been able to even approach the level of offensive performance he gave when he first joined them. Puig still carries an inflated price tag still based on that magical summer but that window is closing and LA knows it. He puts up Melky Cabrera stats with Miguel Cabrera hype. He's MLB's Jeremy Lin. Puigsanity is over.

Edited July 12, 2016 by FT35

[bmags]

I get that people don't want sox to be burned by trading away thompson/montas/m.johnson, but the constant effort to trash anyone as terrible as soon as they leave. The constant refrain of how Semein will never make it (newsflash, his defense has improved and he is a good hitter) and oh, how terrible Trayce is. Trayce is better than Austin Jackson.

 

If you would have asked what TT was last year, everyone pretty much would have been happy if he was a .740 OPS CF with dope defense. But on the Dodgers he's awful, terrible.

 

I hope Trayce is great. He deserves time to develop. He may end up as someone who just had three hot ML months, or those three hot ML months show that he can play at this level. Give him time.

[shysocks]

I agree. Semien was a butcher at SS, Phegley is a backup catcher. Ravelo I was on the fence about.

I see this narrative so much here at SoxTalk and I wish it would die. Since about the halfway point of last year Semien has been a passable shortstop. There have been articles about how he was coached up and his error rate plummeted to prove it. He made an error every 27 innings through June of last year; since then he has made one every 72 innings.

 

However else people wanna feel about that trade, okay. It's a trade that will be debated forever. But let's stop saying that Marcus Semien can't be a decent middle infielder in the majors.

[Kyyle23]

i feel like Marcus Semien cant' be a decent middle infielder in the majors. I just think i need to say that

[Dick Allen]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...false/minpa/250

 

Going by WAR, Thompson is 41st out of the 66 MLB outfielders with over 250 PA's at 0.8. Over a full season, roughly 1.5.

By OPS, 47th.

 

That still has a lot of value, for a first/second year player with a dirt cheap contract. It means he would be right around the middle of statistical comparison with "second outfielders" on most MLB teams...with many non-qualified players putting up lower numbers, the same as we talk about with pitchers all the time and how many with terrible stats don't show up because they don't record enough innings to qualify.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...false/minpa/250

There are a ton of "big names" with large contracts on this list behind Thompson. And a lot of them play in better parks for offense than Dodgers' stadium, especially night games when the marine layer comes in (more impact in SD, but still affects LA, SF and Safeco).

 

 

Marcus Semien has been around the 13th or 14th SS going by WAR/OPS on a consistent basis, nearly all season long...and those numbers would be even better playing 81 home games at USCF vs. O.Co. That also has a LOT of value.

You would have traded both for Shark

 

As everyone else has said, if the deal is Semien and pieces (Webb/Bassitt/Beck/Johnson/Davidson, etc.) then you have to do it. But not if you include Anderson, Montas and Hawkins.

 

Then the White Sox would be left scrambling at 2B and/or the RH complement to Gillaspie.

 

Would they sign another player for one year or do they gamble that Micah Johnson's ready? Do they truly believe Sanchez can be close to league average at 2B if they deem Johnson not ready until at least mid-season?

 

This post has been edited by caulfield12: Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:57 PM

 

Probably by they have to do it, you meant you were against it, but quit crying about Semien.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

I remember a lot of people here being cool with the deal because Semien wasn't seen as a SS, so the Sox had a future log jam between Semien, Micah and Sanchez.

 

The way it seemed to break down was...

 

Semien - defense was passable at 2B, would be a solid player but not standout in many ways. Baseball equivalent of a glue guy.

Micah - Elite game changing speed, best bat of the bunch, atrocious defense. Team seemingly was banking on him.

Sanchez - Top level defense, bat would be serviceable

 

 

[shysocks]

i feel like Marcus Semien cant' be a decent middle infielder in the majors. I just think i need to say that

NO

[Dunt]

i feel like Marcus Semien cant' be a decent middle infielder in the majors. I just think i need to say that

 

I think it was a disservice to move him away from 3rd. His power plays well there and he was a solid enough defender there to stick. I agree that he shouldn't be at SS though.

[southsider2k5]

I get that people don't want sox to be burned by trading away thompson/montas/m.johnson, but the constant effort to trash anyone as terrible as soon as they leave. The constant refrain of how Semein will never make it (newsflash, his defense has improved and he is a good hitter) and oh, how terrible Trayce is. Trayce is better than Austin Jackson.

 

If you would have asked what TT was last year, everyone pretty much would have been happy if he was a .740 OPS CF with dope defense. But on the Dodgers he's awful, terrible.

 

I hope Trayce is great. He deserves time to develop. He may end up as someone who just had three hot ML months, or those three hot ML months show that he can play at this level. Give him time.

 

This is the natural backlash to the group that trashes everything the Sox do, especially their prospects, but then turn them into cult hero's when they do get dealt.

[southsider2k5]

I remember a lot of people here being cool with the deal because Semien wasn't seen as a SS, so the Sox had a future log jam between Semien, Micah and Sanchez.

 

The way it seemed to break down was...

 

Semien - defense was passable at 2B, would be a solid player but not standout in many ways. Baseball equivalent of a glue guy.

Micah - Elite game changing speed, best bat of the bunch, atrocious defense. Team seemingly was banking on him.

Sanchez - Top level defense, bat would be serviceable

 

And at the end of the day Tim Anderson at SS has put all of that debate to rest.

[shysocks]

And at the end of the day Tim Anderson at SS has put all of that debate to rest.

I don't see the Semien/Micah/Sanchez pileup and Timmy as that closely related. Despite the plan clearly being to move Anderson along quickly, we still went and acquired a 2B who ultimately isn't as good as Semien. I think we'd be a better team with Semien instead of Lawrie, especially when you factor in years of control. We'll see if Ynoa and Burdi can bridge the gap.