TheTruth05 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:54 PM) Maybe something crazy will happen, but remember this off season Cincy was so utterly uninterested in our second tier of prospects (we wouldn't trade them Anderson, Fulmer, etc) that we couldn't get a deal done for Frazier straight up. Nothing got done until Hahn enlisted the Dodgers. My guess is that the odds of a Bruce deal are slim to none. Which is fine honestly, I know Morneau is a wild card right now but him at DH ridding us of Avi is a massive upgrade. Lucroy would be the only trade target I'd inquire about since he'd round the lineup out so well at a position he can hold until Collins can potentially take over. Anderson Eaton Abreu Lucroy Melky Frazier Morneau Lawrie Jackson That's a legit lineup. Pick up a solid bullpen arm if possible, get Rodon going better and this team will be in it until the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) My requisite post The Sox will never get anywhere if they keep moving their better prospects for 1-2 year veterans who have reached peak. Yes, it will meet the Williams/Hahn mythical "3 (now 2) year window" and it obviously would excite fans. But the Sox won't win. Some teams can do this sort of thing...those with stocked farms. The Sox system is thin, including, despite claims to the contrary, pitching. Looking for a catcher is particularly bad idea, as the marginal value of a catcher upgrade isn't as great as, say, the marginal value of a hitter, but the cost would be much higher. Thanks for your input. We had no idea how you felt on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:57 PM) My requisite post Ok, this was fair. QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) Thanks for your input. We had no idea how you felt on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) My requisite post The Sox will never get anywhere if they keep moving their better prospects for 1-2 year veterans who have reached peak. Yes, it will meet the Williams/Hahn mythical "3 (now 2) year window" and it obviously would excite fans. But the Sox won't win. Some teams can do this sort of thing...those with stocked farms. The Sox system is thin, including, despite claims to the contrary, pitching. Looking for a catcher is particularly bad idea, as the marginal value of a catcher upgrade isn't as great as, say, the marginal value of a hitter, but the cost would be much higher. They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:59 PM) Which is fine honestly, I know Morneau is a wild card right now but him at DH ridding us of Avi is a massive upgrade. Lucroy would be the only trade target I'd inquire about since he'd round the lineup out so well at a position he can hold until Collins can potentially take over. Anderson Eaton Abreu Lucroy Melky Frazier Morneau Lawrie Jackson That's a legit lineup. Pick up a solid bullpen arm if possible, get Rodon going better and this team will be in it until the end. As a DH, Morneau doesn't even have to that much to drastically improve what we have gotten out of that position, not to mention being a left really balances out the line up a lot better. Even if he puts up only a .700 OPS, that is a 50 point improvement over what Avi has given us so far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. A 7 foot center in the system would be intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. Were you including Tyler to be facetious, or you're really more confident in him this year, compared to last? Capable of putting up a better season than, let's say, Marcus Semien's 2016 so far? As to earlier posts about Saladino being a centerpiece for Lucroy, that's borderline crazy talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 05:23 PM) Were you including Tyler to be facetious, or you're really more confident in him this year, compared to last? Capable of putting up a better season than, let's say, Marcus Semien's 2016 so far? As to earlier posts about Saladino being a centerpiece for Lucroy, that's borderline crazy talk. Agree. Saladino isn't a centerpiece to a trade unless it's purely a salary dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) Were you including Tyler to be facetious, or you're really more confident in him this year, compared to last? Capable of putting up a better season than, let's say, Marcus Semien's 2016 so far? As to earlier posts about Saladino being a centerpiece for Lucroy, that's borderline crazy talk. I suppose you are referring to my crazy talk about Lawrie or Saladino plus Trey M, and C. Hawkins to which I quickly admitted Fulmer would have to most likely be in any deal for Lucroy. So I beat you to the punch on discounting my own idea though it never was Saladino as a centerpiece since Lawrie was the original choice. I just have a hard time figuring out what 1.5 years of a guy is worth. Always seems like too much to me like with Samardzija. 1 year for all those years and players given up seems so very very wasteful. Or even the 2 years of Frazier and Lawrie . I'm not quite a hero worshipper nor a prospect guy. Just try to find the fine line on when exactly is the right time to give up many years for a year or 2 of a decent player. Prospects run the greater risk of flopping than the veteran which is balanced out by the prospect(s) having time to improve . I tend to think organizations give up too much for rentals but that's me. Winning instantly has its own reward to those who have a chance to do it. I then changed it to Fulmer , Saladino + or ++ for Lucroy and Tyler Thornburg in subsequent posts. Edited July 8, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 05:27 PM) I suppose you are referring to my crazy talk about Lawrie or Saladino plus Trey M, and C. Hawkins to which I quickly admitted Fulmer would have to most likely be in any deal for Lucroy. So I beat you to the punch on discounting my own idea though it never was Saladino as a centerpiece since Lawrie was the original choice. I just have a hard time figuring out what 1.5 years of a guy is worth. Always seems like too much to me like with Samardzija. 1 year for all those years and players given up seems so very very wasteful. Or even the 2 years of Frazier and Lawrie . I'm not quite a hero worshipper nor a prospect guy. Just try to find the fine line on when exactly is the right time to give up many years for a year or 2 of a decent player. Prospects run the greater risk of flopping than the veteran which is balanced out by the prospect(s) having time to improve . I tend to think organizations give up too much for rentals but that's me. Winning instantly has its own reward to those who have a chance to do it. I then changed it to Fulmer , Saladino + or ++ for Lucroy and Tyler Thornburg in subsequent posts. It would start with Fulmer in my opinion so I agree. I'd honestly probably prefer trying to package Fulmer for Wil Myers whom you'd have control over for another few seasons. He's only 25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. Yes, Hahn saved his scant few A prospects, just like any decent organization would. He hasn't traded for A level veteran talent either. But he's sent away a lot of Bs. And he has far fewer Bs than other orgs. Far fewer. And yes, I know yall know how I feel. Yall post the same trade ideas, and I post the same objections and suggest saving the Sox prospects. There is no trade of which you can conceive that will make the Sox legitimate world series contenders. No gaggle of Brewers or Cargo will put this team into the World Series. The Sox budget is competitive...IF you have a core of young talent. The Sox don't have near enough to take starting jobs; and another effect of trading the Bs, is that Hahn squanders some of his budget on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers, when your B prospects could take those spots. Edited July 9, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 05:27 PM) I suppose you are referring to my crazy talk about Lawrie or Saladino plus Trey M, and C. Hawkins to which I quickly admitted Fulmer would have to most likely be in any deal for Lucroy. So I beat you to the punch on discounting my own idea though it never was Saladino as a centerpiece since Lawrie was the original choice. I just have a hard time figuring out what 1.5 years of a guy is worth. Always seems like too much to me like with Samardzija. 1 year for all those years and players given up seems so very very wasteful. Or even the 2 years of Frazier and Lawrie . I'm not quite a hero worshipper nor a prospect guy. Just try to find the fine line on when exactly is the right time to give up many years for a year or 2 of a decent player. Prospects run the greater risk of flopping than the veteran which is balanced out by the prospect(s) having time to improve . I tend to think organizations give up too much for rentals but that's me. Winning instantly has its own reward to those who have a chance to do it. I then changed it to Fulmer , Saladino + or ++ for Lucroy and Tyler Thornburg in subsequent posts. Actually responding to Southsider2k5's list of remaining "young core" guys, but good response! And yeah, also the idea of Saladino as a centerpiece of anything. He can be a piece, with Fulmer. That said, you leave yourself having to go out once again and find another 2B unless you're a huge Carlos Sanchez fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 07:13 PM) Actually responding to Southsider2k5's list of remaining "young core" guys, but good response! And yeah, also the idea of Saladino as a centerpiece of anything. He can be a piece, with Fulmer. That said, you leave yourself having to go out once again and find another 2B unless you're a huge Carlos Sanchez fan. Why would they need another 2nd baseman ? Lawrie would still be here and Sanchez as a backup isn't bad, But I did also mention Steve Pearce as a supersub since he has been playing infield positions for TB. And umm SS2k5 never mentioned Saladino in a trade for Lucroy. Just mentioned him as a core guy. Edited July 9, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system. Semien, Montas and Trayce Thompson seem to disagree since Semien has 19 HR's, Montas is still in the top 100 prospects despite injuries and not even pitching. Might make a case for Thompson but probably don't need Jackson if we still had him and he has more HR's than Abreu. Their slugging, OPS, and OPS+ are all pretty equal despite Traces' low batting average. Semien has a better SLG, WAR, and OPS than Frazier. But if Frazier is supposed to be our best hitter Semien has been at the very least his equal this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 02:24 AM) Why would they need another 2nd baseman ? Lawrie would still be here and Sanchez as a backup isn't bad, But I did also mention Steve Pearce as a supersub since he has been playing infield positions for TB. And umm SS2k5 never mentioned Saladino in a trade for Lucroy. Just mentioned him as a core guy. I should have just responded directly to his quote. About inclusion of Saladino in that care group of "young prospects" that hadn't been dealt...I was questioning his name being there. Wasn't sure if he was just trying to poke at GreenSox by pointing out we hadn't traded him YET (of course, which would lead to another discussion of why Saladino wasn't getting more playing time or why they traded for Lawrie when Saladino COULD play that position for the next 5+ years). Edited July 9, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 They need to be blowing s*** up, not adding more pieces to a broken train. 8 years without reaching the post season. Hey Sox, you're doing it WRONG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 Can cross Ziegler off the most. Boston picked him up last night for a couple A ballers. QUOTE (Real @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 07:04 AM) They need to be blowing s*** up, not adding more pieces to a broken train. 8 years without reaching the post season. Hey Sox, you're doing it WRONG. That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Sox need a bat but biggest bats they can aquire is eaton and abreu hitting more to their career norms would be a huge help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Personally I hope the Sox do not trade any more potential future assets for a longshot chance of making the playoffs. The manager still makes far to many questionable decisions (latest example using Beck in a two run game Friday night), the lineup still has a lot of holes and the pitching is thing along with a thin bench and very little help in the minors. Anything is possible but as I said the odds are very long. I wouldn't do it but the Sox probably will knowing the Sox. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 07:23 AM) Can cross Ziegler off the most. Boston picked him up last night for a couple A ballers. That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality. Dbacks do some things I don't understand. Boston gave up very little. Edited July 9, 2016 by oldsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Puig could be dealt. Wonder what LA wants for him? I know he's been banged up and inconsistent. Just another name to throw out there. My guy Myers won't be dealt. I'd like to get a bat with contractural control for a few seasons. Edited July 10, 2016 by SouthSideSale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 07:23 AM) Can cross Ziegler off the most. Boston picked him up last night for a couple A ballers. That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality. I question the competence of the scouting in this organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 03:02 AM) I question the competence of the scouting in this organization. You mean to tell me that you don't think Avi is a 5 tool player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 06:23 AM) That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality. The reality is that in this the 22nd year of the existence of the AL Central, with small market Cleveland well on its way to wining this division for the eighth time, you combine that with how many times the other two small market teams have won the division, and you'll see that the large market White Sox, with its resources advantage, has been aced a whopping 15 times by a small market team over that 22 year period. 15 division titles between Cleveland, Minnesota, and KC, and just three for the Sox. This despite the Sox being the only team in the bunch with a sweetheart lease deal in place that allows them to keep far more of its revenues than those other teams can. It's clear what those other teams lack in $$$ resources they make up for in superior front office capital running those organizations. So yes, the reality is more of the same until that time when a change at the top finally occurs. Edited July 10, 2016 by Thad Bosley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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