southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 09:47 AM) The reality is that in this the 22nd year of the existence of the AL Central, with small market Cleveland well on its way to wining this division for the eighth time, you combine that with how many times the other two small market teams have won the division, and you'll see that the large market White Sox, with its resources advantage, has been aced a whopping 15 times by a small market team over that 22 year period. 15 division titles between Cleveland, Minnesota, and KC, and just three for the Sox. This despite the Sox being the only team in the bunch with a sweetheart lease deal in place that allows them to keep far more of its revenues than those other teams can. It's clear what those other teams lack in $$$ resources they make up for in superior front office capital running those organizations. So yes, the reality is more of the same until that time when a change at the top finally occurs. I would be curious to see the details of those other teams leases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 09:47 AM) The reality is that in this the 22nd year of the existence of the AL Central, with small market Cleveland well on its way to wining this division for the eighth time, you combine that with how many times the other two small market teams have won the division, and you'll see that the large market White Sox, with its resources advantage, has been aced a whopping 15 times by a small market team over that 22 year period. 15 division titles between Cleveland, Minnesota, and KC, and just three for the Sox. This despite the Sox being the only team in the bunch with a sweetheart lease deal in place that allows them to keep far more of its revenues than those other teams can. It's clear what those other teams lack in $$$ resources they make up for in superior front office capital running those organizations. So yes, the reality is more of the same until that time when a change at the top finally occurs. And 2 of those teams have done the only thing that matters which is win a world series. Neither of them is the Indians. And one of them was put together by our current management team that is in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) And 2 of those teams have done the only thing that matters which is win a world series. Neither of them is the Indians. And one of them was put together by our current management team that is in place. There's no argument the Sox were far more successful in one of their three playoff appearances since the inception of the current division structure than the Indians and Twins were in their 14 combined appearances during that same time frame. But that wasn't the point I was making. The more overarching observation was that the small market teams in the division have won the division five times as often as the large market Chicago White Sox have. That's kind of embarrassing. And the "current management team that is in place" that you reference has only built teams that have won the division in just two of their 15 years now being at this thing. Not exactly an eye popping record of achievement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) I would be curious to see the details of those other teams leases. Don't question it! The Sox are dumb and their problems are totally unique in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 03:15 PM) There's no argument the Sox were far more successful in one of their three playoff appearances since the inception of the current division structure than the Indians and Twins were in their 14 combined appearances during that same time frame. But that wasn't the point I was making. The more overarching observation was that the small market teams in the division have won the division five times as often as the large market Chicago White Sox have. That's kind of embarrassing. And the "current management team that is in place" that you reference has only built teams that have won the division in just two of their 15 years now being at this thing. Not exactly an eye popping record of achievement. Actually I would agree with the assessment that the White Sox are more accurately a mid-market team and the Cubs the large market team in Chicago. bleacherreport.com/articles/961412-mlb...30-mlb-teams-by-market-size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Fools gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Regardless of the stadium lease, the Sox still have a bigger budget than everyone but Detroit. It's how they use their money that's the problem. Hahn's strength is numbers and contracts. He's way over his head in his current job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 My guess is if they're trading for anyone of substance, he'll not just be a rental. This doesn't include bullpen help, thou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) My guess is if they're trading for anyone of substance, he'll not just be a rental. This doesn't include bullpen help, thou. Probably true. They'll go for a 1.5 -2.5 year guy or a pay down a bad contract with extra prospects. It will be a veteran at or past his prime. We likely have at least another year of Rick Hahn's dog and pony show. Edited July 10, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) I would be curious to see the details of those other teams leases. And then you can figure it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) http://mlb.mlb.com/kc/download/announcemen...oyals012406.pdf There's the Royals' lease agreement (revisited in 2006). http://www.810whb.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=1001 It wasn't good for the taxpayers, but isn't nearly as onerous as the USCF one in terms of parking revenue and the attendance guarantees...and a lot of the money was used for improvements in what is now one of the older stadiums in baseball (early 1970's). Edited July 11, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 The Sox are silly for waiting 3 more weeks to make any moves for a pen arm and bat. They should get a bat during the all star break. Yes Morneau is going to be ready but that's not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 09:01 PM) The Sox are silly for waiting 3 more weeks to make any moves for a pen arm and bat. They should get a bat during the all star break. Yes Morneau is going to be ready but that's not enough. I'm sure they're trying. I'm not sure they have enough to outbid other teams for Bruce, CarGo, or Reddick. All of those guys would also require Eaton to move back to CF. I would target Steve Pearce and Derek Norris and get the pitching help from within with Fulmer, Burdi, and Goldberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 08:09 PM) I'm sure they're trying. I'm not sure they have enough to outbid other teams for Bruce, CarGo, or Reddick. All of those guys would also require Eaton to move back to CF. I would target Steve Pearce and Derek Norris and get the pitching help from within with Fulmer, Burdi, and Goldberg. I know it takes two to tango so-to-speak but I just don't want them standing pat. Either "go for it" or sell. Not necessarily if Morneau sucks, you can move Melky to DH and have one of them in the outfield or vice versa Edited July 11, 2016 by SouthSideSale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 09:01 PM) The Sox are silly for waiting 3 more weeks to make any moves for a pen arm and bat. They should get a bat during the all star break. Yes Morneau is going to be ready but that's not enough. What offers are out there that they are missing out on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 George King of the New York Post has the White Sox as a potential fit for Beltran. http://nypost.com/2016/07/10/yanks-could-h...-morneau-fails/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 06:59 PM) http://mlb.mlb.com/kc/download/announcemen...oyals012406.pdf There's the Royals' lease agreement (revisited in 2006). http://www.810whb.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=1001 It wasn't good for the taxpayers, but isn't nearly as onerous as the USCF one in terms of parking revenue and the attendance guarantees...and a lot of the money was used for improvements in what is now one of the older stadiums in baseball (early 1970's). So the Royals basically pocket all of their stadium money. The tax fund that funds USCF at least has to go to improvements towards the stadium. That is what funded the new scoreboards, and and the renovations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 03:46 AM) George King of the New York Post has the White Sox as a potential fit for Beltran. http://nypost.com/2016/07/10/yanks-could-h...-morneau-fails/ Beltran is having a nice year, 19 homers. But I'd say "pass." He's too old, 39. He actually would be a good pickup for the Royals. I think they are more apt to make a playoff run than we are. He could be this year's Rios for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Either go for it or sell. No in between nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I'd be interested to see some in depth stats that illustrate how much difference a big bat would have made in our line up in the first half and forecasted into the second. As in - how many LOB have we had per game on average. How many 2nd base or 3rd base runners stranded with 0 outs / 1 out / 2 outs... Take those stats and figure how much would change with a producer added. Maybe - just maybe - a big bat would do a lot for this team. Most likely not enough but just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 11:01 PM) I'd be interested to see some in depth stats that illustrate how much difference a big bat would have made in our line up in the first half and forecasted into the second. As in - how many LOB have we had per game on average. How many 2nd base or 3rd base runners stranded with 0 outs / 1 out / 2 outs... Take those stats and figure how much would change with a producer added. Maybe - just maybe - a big bat would do a lot for this team. Most likely not enough but just wondering. I'd assume just take what player you'd add (call him X). Take a stat like RISP and then factor player X in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 10:04 PM) I'd assume just take what player you'd add (call him X). Take a stat like RISP and then factor player X in. Sox are hitting .239. Beltran is hitting .215. Bruce .366. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 11:19 PM) Sox are hitting .239. Beltran is hitting .215. Bruce .366. Curious about Cargo. Now I know his road splits are worse but he'd be coming to a very hitter friendly park. Not as good as Colorado but it's good. He would've hit bombs this weekend at the Cell. I'd much rather have him than Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 11:13 PM) Curious about Cargo. Now I know his road splits are worse but he'd be coming to a very hitter friendly park. Not as good as Colorado but it's good. He would've hit bombs this weekend at the Cell. I'd much rather have him than Bruce. .306 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 For conversation sake: Jose Abreu - .258 Todd Frazier - .145 Melky - .293 Lawrie - .284 Avi - .333 Shuck - .208 Navaro - .234 Eaton - .239 Anderson - .278 Jackson - .364 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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