Falcon Heights Minnesota shooting

[MexSoxFan#1]

No, that's NOT a fact.

 

I posted data to prove this wrong, stop repeating it now. This isn't an opinion of yours.

Stats skewed by cartel members killing each other.

 

Context

[Balta1701]

No, that's NOT a fact.

 

I posted data to prove this wrong, stop repeating it now. This isn't an opinion of yours.

And it's a great illustration of white privilege, because it's a complete failure to recognize that non-whites are effectively living in a different country within our borders.

Extending on an analysis by the academic Kieran Healy, I calculated the rate of U.S. homicide deaths by racial group, based on the CDC WONDER data.3 From 2010 through 2012, the annual rate of homicide deaths among non-Hispanic white Americans was 2.5 per 100,000 persons, meaning that about one in every 40,000 white Americans is a homicide victim each year. By comparison, the rate of homicide deaths among non-Hispanic black Americans is 19.4 per 100,000 persons, or about 1 in 5,000 people per year.

 

Black Americans are almost eight times as likely as white ones to be homicide victims, in other words.

 

So for white Americans, the homicide death rate is not so much of an outlier. It’s only modestly higher than in Finland, Belgium or Greece, for instance, and lower than in Chile or Latvia.

 

But there’s no other highly industrialized country with a homicide death rate similar to the one black Americans experience. Their homicide death rate, 19.4 per 100,000 persons, is about 12 times higher than the average rate among all people4 in other developed countries.

 

Instead, you’d have to look toward developing countries such as Mexico (22.0), Brazil (23.6), Nigeria (20.0), Rwanda (23.1) or Myanmar (15.2) to find a comparable rate. The Charleston killings were unusual in that it was a mass shooting — and also in that the suspect is of a different race than the victims (both black and white homicide victims are much more likely to be killed by someone of their own race.) But that doesn’t negate that the threat black Americans face from homicide is radically different from the one whites do.

[RockRaines]

Let's get rid of gang related violence in both countries. Where does that roughly leave both in terms of violence?

bring us down to about 2 killings a week in chicago.

[Y2HH]

Let's get rid of gang related violence in both countries. Where does that roughly leave both in terms of violence?

 

Not sure how you'd do that. While I'm sure (as he pointed out), there are areas of Mexico that are very safe, there are also areas of the US that are very safe.

 

Hell, if we were able to remove the cartels and gangs from Mexico and the US, I bet North America would become one of the safest places on earth overnight. But this isn't reality. Fact is, both in Mexico and in the US, gangs make up for a majority of the violent crime...hell, I live in Chicago and I never see violent crime...does that make Chicago safe? Hell no.

[Y2HH]

...ok, and back to the original discussion.

 

I think we've derailed this enough and it's no longer even on the proper subject.

[Y2HH]

And it's a great illustration of white privilege, because it's a complete failure to recognize that non-whites are effectively living in a different country within our borders.

 

I don't think anything I said shows a failure to recognize that whatsoever.

 

Obviously, the high violent crime rate in Chicago occurs in very few places. I'm well aware of this...I think most people are well aware of this.

[MexSoxFan#1]

...ok, and back to the original discussion.

 

I think we've derailed this enough and it's no longer even on the proper subject.

I agree

 

and just because I said I'm afraid of cops in the US and I feel safer back home

[Balta1701]

I don't think anything I said shows a failure to recognize that whatsoever.

 

Obviously, the high violent crime rate in Chicago occurs in very few places. I'm well aware of this...I think most people are well aware of this.

Telling a non-white person to leave the country because they don't experience the same environment you do.

[Y2HH]

I agree

 

and just because I said I'm afraid of cops in the US and I feel safer back home

 

I was merely trying to hold your head and soothe you in the only way I know how...with a steel chair to the noggin and a sleeper hold.

[Y2HH]

Telling a non-white person to leave the country because they don't experience the same environment you do.

 

He literally said he wanted to leave. So I told him too. Convenient you left that part off, though...otherwise your weak sauce argument doesn't hold water.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Y2HH

[bmags]

NRA not commenting on this.

[StrangeSox]

NRA not commenting on this.

 

I'm actually mildly surprised but probably shouldn't be. Gun rights aren't for those people.

[Jenksismyhero]

Man, are we hiring the wrong police officers? Less than half have college degrees and that half is less likely to use force. Do we need to up the requirements to be an officer?

 

I think a big problem is that we have a lot of ex-vets who go into law enforcement. And the way the government has handed down gear and trained local and state police departments, its inevitable that they just take on a military style form of justice.

 

 

[RockRaines]

I think a big problem is that we have a lot of ex-vets who go into law enforcement. And the way the government has handed down gear and trained local and state police departments, its inevitable that they just take on a military style form of justice.

I mean, we are hiring a lot of under educated people (by some measure), throwing them out into the field with the utmost authority and deadly weapons, thats not a great formula.

[southsider2k5]

I think a big problem is that we have a lot of ex-vets who go into law enforcement. And the way the government has handed down gear and trained local and state police departments, its inevitable that they just take on a military style form of justice.

 

That's because no one wants the job for the most part, and it is only getting worse. Raising qualifications will just mean less people to choose from.

[Jenksismyhero]

I mean, we are hiring a lot of under educated people (by some measure), throwing them out into the field with the utmost authority and deadly weapons, thats not a great formula.

 

Not sure (1) this is true, but more importantly (2) whether being intelligent has anything to do with it. Most of these cops committing these acts aren't young and green. They seem to be to be older cops who have grown intolerant/impatient with the people they are serving. They're wrongly ASSUMING that something bad is about to happen or they get ANGRY far too quickly about how the situation is progressing.

[Jenksismyhero]

That's because no one wants the job for the most part, and it is only getting worse. Raising qualifications will just mean less people to choose from.

 

Not sure this is true either, especially in bigger cities. Chicago always has a huge wait list. In big cities where the pay and benefits are nice, there's a good amount of competition to become a cop.

[bmags]

I don't think it has anything to do with education, tbh.

[RockRaines]

Not sure (1) this is true, but more importantly (2) whether being intelligent has anything to do with it. Most of these cops committing these acts aren't young and green. They seem to be to be older cops who have grown intolerant/impatient with the people they are serving. They're wrongly ASSUMING that something bad is about to happen or they get ANGRY far too quickly about how the situation is progressing.

Statistics prove that college educated officers are less likely to use force than the ones that do not have that education. So there is some correlation there.

 

Policing is almost like social work these days, and lack of patience and understanding is definitely not a desirable trait for sure.

Edited July 7, 2016 by RockRaines

[greg775]

Please watch this woman explain the murder of her boyfriend. This is a f***ing disgrace. This is America??? What the f*** is going on? He was assassinated!!!!!! And after the cold blooded murder the woman was treated like a criminal as well. Separated from her kid? Cops f***ing with her facebook page?? Taking her phone?? What the f*** did she do?? What the f*** did her boyfriend do?

 

 

http://video.startribune.com/girlfriend-wh...ened/385878211/

[southsider2k5]

Statistics prove that college educated officers are less likely to use force than the ones that do not have that education. So there is some correlation there.

 

Policing is almost like social work these days, and lack of patience and understanding is definitely not a desirable trait for sure.

 

College educated are also the ones who are more likely to have better options than policing.

[Y2HH]

Please watch this woman explain the murder of her boyfriend. This is a f***ing disgrace. This is America??? What the f*** is going on? He was assassinated!!!!!! And after the cold blooded murder the woman was treated like a criminal as well. Separated from her kid? Cops f***ing with her facebook page?? Taking her phone?? What the f*** did she do?? What the f*** did her boyfriend do?

 

 

http://video.startribune.com/girlfriend-wh...ened/385878211/

 

Greg, can I ask you a serious question?

 

Are you actually this outraged or are you just putting on a show? You're so over the top, I just think you're that person that "internet yells and screams", and then opens up a 50$ bottle of Stag's Leap Cab and sips it on his rustic front porch and watches the sun go down while bluebirds land on your railing and talk to you.

 

Personally, I tend to be a devils advocate of sorts (I'm sure that's quite clear around these parts)...I like to argue, but I don't take it personally. And if I'm being perfectly honest...I'm more saddened by this than angry. But I know this will pass, it always does, and get replaced by the latest atrocity that occurs somewhere in the world for us to discuss. I feel bad anyone has to go through this. Now, should I put myself out there and admit the truth?

 

I won't lose any sleep over it, either.

 

I'm not sure if that makes me a bad person, or indifferent...I'm just so used to it, it doesn't affect me anymore.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Y2HH

[RockRaines]

College educated are also the ones who are more likely to have better options than policing.

And there's the rub

[BigSqwert]

Greg, can I ask you a serious question?

 

Are you actually this outraged or are you just putting on a show? You're so over the top, I just think you're that person that "internet yells and screams", and then opens up a 50$ bottle of Stag's Leap Cab and sips it on his rustic front porch and watches the sun go down while bluebirds land on your railing and talk to you.

 

Personally, I tend to be a devils advocate of sorts (I'm sure that's quite clear around these parts)...I like to argue, but I don't take it personally. And if I'm being perfectly honest...I'm more saddened by this than angry. But I know this will pass, it always does, and get replaced by the latest atrocity that occurs somewhere in the world for us to discuss. I feel bad anyone has to go through this. Now, should I put myself out there and admit the truth?

 

I won't lose any sleep over it, either.

 

I'm not sure if that makes me a bad person, or indifferent...I'm just so used to it, it doesn't affect me anymore.

 

I am just as angered as Greg. I can't stop thinking about this today. I was literally shaken to the core last night when this exploded on twitter.

[BigSqwert]

 We have too much law enforcement, too deeply enmeshed in our lives, and that fact is making us less, not more safe.