David Robertson didn't pitch in a 1 run save situation

[caulfield12]

Oh, he's also better than Kevin Jepsen and Huston Street...yay! Cause for celebration.

[Dick Allen]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/sort/saves

 

On this page of the top 40 saves leaders in major leagues, Robertson has a WHIP of 1.40, which really isn't that good and I hope isn't considered elite or worth one of the Top 3 salaries in baseball for a closer.

 

He's ahead of only Ziegler, McGee, Rosenthal (deposed from closer's role), Tolleson (deposed from closer's role) and Arodys Vizcaino.

Not exactly the best of company for his salary.

 

You want to talk about WAR instead?

 

There are 19 relievers on that same page ahead of Robertson's 0.9, which for a full year equates to less than a 2 WAR.

 

Some of the relievers in that same category? K-Rod, Santiago Casilla, Jonathan Papelbon and Ryan Madson. Not exactly elite again.

 

 

If he's not a problem, then he's certainly not one of the 3-5 best closers in baseball, which he's clearly being paid to be.

 

Unless you want to go through this list and tell us all the closers that you would currently rank Robertson ahead of, all stats to the contrary, you'd be quite generous to put him in the top 50%.

 

Certainly not based on output per contract dollar or ROI.

 

His stats are out of whack because of 2 appearances covering a total of one inning. One it mattered, the other it didn't.

 

He is one of the best closers in baseball. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

His stats are out of whack because of 2 appearances covering a total of one inning. One it mattered, the other it didn't.

 

He is one of the best closers in baseball. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

James Shields is one of the best starters in baseball if we just ignore 4-5 of his starts. Should we throw out all of his ER's because he only pitched like 3-4 innings total in them? The entire point of baseball for a pitcher is to record outs...therefore, when you don't succeed at that and keep allowing baserunners, of course the appearance/s will be limited, unless Ventura just left said pitcher in an unlimited amount of time. Do you blame Ventura, then, for those two appearances, moreso than Robertson?

 

John Danks as well.

 

Statistics don't lie...over the course of half a season, they paint a fairly decent picture.

 

If we took all the blown saves away from each of those closers, wouldn't they all be close to elite?

 

 

How many 1-2-3 innings has he had this year in closing situations, compared to the others? Or that's an unfair way to look at his job/responsibility as well...?

Edited July 10, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

James Shields is one of the best starters in baseball if we just ignore 4-5 of his starts. Should we throw out all of his ER's because he only pitched like 3-4 innings total in them? The entire point of baseball for a pitcher is to record outs...therefore, when you don't succeed at that and keep allowing baserunners, of course the appearance/s will be limited, unless Ventura just left said pitcher in an unlimited amount of time. Do you blame Ventura, then, for those two appearances, moreso than Robertson?

 

John Danks as well.

 

Statistics don't lie...over the course of half a season, they paint a fairly decent picture.

 

If we took all the blown saves away from each of those closers, wouldn't they all be close to elite?

 

 

How many 1-2-3 innings has he had this year in closing situations, compared to the others? Or that's an unfair way to look at his job/responsibility as well...?

 

23/25 is all that really matters.

 

[caulfield12]

Said all of those fans of Bobby Jenks at the end of his career, especially Greg.

 

Just win baby, I remember quite clearly.

 

Because he was the opposite of a sabre/advanced stats dream at the end of his Sox career. He was just barely surviving by the skin of his teeth, his physical health was deteriorating and his stuff was degrading over time as well.

 

I don't think anyone would equate that with being a great closer.

 

 

And that conveniently doesn't count the game Robertson blew on May 28th...because the lead he blew was SO freakin' large it didn't even qualify as a save opportunity...that's how bad it was, as you can't pitch your way into a save situation for yourself.

 

You can count it as two, but it's three to the rest of Sox fans, a statistical oddity or anomaly of historical proportions that weekend.

Edited July 10, 2016 by caulfield12

[tray]

Yea, Robertson isn't that good, but the Cubs could use him in their shoddy bullpen. I'd trade Robertson for Schwarber hoping he can DH and platoon at first base next year.

[harkness99]

23/25 is all that really matters.

 

This... Robertson struggled some about a month ago.

 

He has been solid the last few weeks.

[caulfield12]

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/salary/closer/

 

Slightly behind Aroldis Chapman and Craig Kimbrel for 3rd highest paid closer in baseball at $11 million per year. Tied with Papelbon.

 

Unless we're REALLY going to go for it this year, they should get a prospect/s back (say Baez or Almora, Jr.), invest $10 million in another hitter or starting pitcher and use Burdi/Fulmer/Hansen/Danish/Stephens behind Nate Jones in the bullpen.

 

Then they can turn around and flip Nate Jones in the same way Billy Beane does it...or the White Sox attempted to do with Sergio Santos and Addison Reed.

 

 

It would be shocking if the Cubs agreed to give up Schwarber OR Contreras for Robertson. Not even Robertson and Nate Jones would get them BOTH of those two. They'd offer Vogelbach and we'd counter with either 1) Baez, 2) Almora or 3) McKinney. Maybe Almora and Carl Edwards, Jr.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Yea, Robertson isn't that good, but the Cubs could use him in their shoddy bullpen. I'd trade Robertson for Schwarber hoping he can DH and platoon at first base next year.

That would be the gift of all gifts.

[Dick Allen]

Said all of those fans of Bobby Jenks at the end of his career, especially Greg.

 

Just win baby, I remember quite clearly.

 

Because he was the opposite of a sabre/advanced stats dream at the end of his Sox career. He was just barely surviving by the skin of his teeth, his physical health was deteriorating and his stuff was degrading over time as well.

 

I don't think anyone would equate that with being a great closer.

 

 

And that conveniently doesn't count the game Robertson blew on May 28th...because the lead he blew was SO freakin' large it didn't even qualify as a save opportunity...that's how bad it was, as you can't pitch your way into a save situation for yourself.

 

You can count it as two, but it's three to the rest of Sox fans, a statistical oddity or anomaly of historical proportions that weekend.

The Sox won both his blown save appearances, and his ERA was 0.96 when he had the disaster in KC.

[southsider2k5]

James Shields is one of the best starters in baseball if we just ignore 4-5 of his starts. Should we throw out all of his ER's because he only pitched like 3-4 innings total in them? The entire point of baseball for a pitcher is to record outs...therefore, when you don't succeed at that and keep allowing baserunners, of course the appearance/s will be limited, unless Ventura just left said pitcher in an unlimited amount of time. Do you blame Ventura, then, for those two appearances, moreso than Robertson?

 

John Danks as well.

 

Statistics don't lie...over the course of half a season, they paint a fairly decent picture.

 

If we took all the blown saves away from each of those closers, wouldn't they all be close to elite?

 

 

How many 1-2-3 innings has he had this year in closing situations, compared to the others? Or that's an unfair way to look at his job/responsibility as well...?

 

I think it really is this simple. Robertson has given up 13 runs this entire year. 6 of them, or essentially half, were in one single outing. Does it change his season long stats? Absolutely. Realistically it means that his entire season era has been doubled by one outing, meaning this isn't something that has been happening all season.

[captain54]

I think it really is this simple. Robertson has given up 13 runs this entire year. 6 of them, or essentially half, were in one single outing. Does it change his season long stats? Absolutely. Realistically it means that his entire season era has been doubled by one outing, meaning this isn't something that has been happening all season.

 

You called me out for being irrational and negative when I mentioned the BP as a whole cant be judged by a single stretch of good numbers that skewed the stats as far as getting a true pic of the quality of the pen

 

Now you are saying Robertson can't be judged by a single stretch of bad numbers..that it doesn't reflect the quality of his overall performance.

 

So which one is it? Pick a lane, man

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

You called me out for being irrational and negative when I mentioned the BP as a whole cant be judged by a single stretch of good numbers that skewed the stats as far as getting a true pic of the quality of the pen

 

Now you are saying Robertson can't be judged by a single stretch of bad numbers..that it doesn't reflect the quality of his overall performance.

 

So which one is it? Pick a lane, man

 

 

It's not a stretch. It's one appearance. Take away that outing in Kansas City and nobody is talking about this. I'd trade Robertson in the offseason and go with Burdi and Jones because I don't believe in paying relievers but Robertson is pretty damn good.

[captain54]

It's not a stretch. It's one appearance. Take away that outing in Kansas City and nobody is talking about this. I'd trade Robertson in the offseason and go with Burdi and Jones because I don't believe in paying relievers but Robertson is pretty damn good.

 

Call it a stretch or one appearance. Whatever you would like. The point is, his numbers are skewed. Just as the BP numbers are skewed because of their April 2016 performance. Which I was reminded is the wrong thing to do

 

[southsider2k5]

You called me out for being irrational and negative when I mentioned the BP as a whole cant be judged by a single stretch of good numbers that skewed the stats as far as getting a true pic of the quality of the pen

 

Now you are saying Robertson can't be judged by a single stretch of bad numbers..that it doesn't reflect the quality of his overall performance.

 

So which one is it? Pick a lane, man

 

It really isn't that difficult. Instead of focusing on the worst possible scenario, I look at the big picture. The big picture here is that David Robertson has one completely awful non-save relief appearance that will skew his numbers horribly for the entire season. He has been a really good closer for this season. So instead of focusing on one game... (let me guess, you were there and this is all you remember of Robertson from this season) the big picture tells a pretty clear and compelling story.

[southsider2k5]

Call it a stretch or one appearance. Whatever you would like. The point is, his numbers are skewed. Just as the BP numbers are skewed because of their April 2016 performance. Which I was reminded is the wrong thing to do

 

Except in reality, the one stretch skewing the pen's numbers is the bad stretch in May. They were very good before, and very good since. But you want to focus on the negative, when the positives out number it for the big picture view.

[gosoxgo2005]

Yea, Robertson isn't that good, but the Cubs could use him in their shoddy bullpen. I'd trade Robertson for Schwarber hoping he can DH and platoon at first base next year.

 

Didn't the Cubs say they're not trading Schwarber for Chapman and/or Miller? What makes you think they'd give the Sox Schwarber for Robertson??

[captain54]

It really isn't that difficult. Instead of focusing on the worst possible scenario, I look at the big picture.

 

No you don't. But keep trying to convince yourself that you do

 

You must have been a big hit on vaudeville cause your tap dancing skills are par excellence

 

I'm saying the BP numbers are off because of out of the ordinary positive numbers. You are saying Robertsons numbers are off because of out of the ordinary negative numbers. Somehow you are right and I'm wrong. Whatever

[southsider2k5]

No you don't. But keep trying to convince yourself that you do

 

You must have been a big hit on vaudeville cause your tap dancing skills are par excellence

 

I'm saying the BP numbers are off because of out of the ordinary positive numbers. You are saying Robertsons numbers are off because of out of the ordinary negative numbers. Somehow you are right and I'm wrong. Whatever

 

I prefer the big picture. You prefer the worst case scenario. It isn't that hard to see. The only tap dancing is you trying to turn something completely unrelated into the same argument from the other day in attempt to rehash it for some unknown reason.

[captain54]

I prefer the big picture. You prefer the worst case scenario. It isn't that hard to see. The only tap dancing is you trying to turn something completely unrelated into the same argument from the other day in attempt to rehash it for some unknown reason.

 

You were caught in an inconsistency and it bothers you. That's understandable

[southsider2k5]

You were caught in an inconsistency and it bothers you. That's understandable

 

lol, only in your head.

 

On the bright side, you were perfectly consistent. You focused on the worst possible scenario and tried to sell it as the big picture. Again. But please tell me about the game you were at that you saw someone pitch badly, so that is how the whole season has been.

[captain54]

l, you were perfectly consistent. You focused on the worst possible scenario and tried to sell it as the big picture. Again. But please tell me about the game you were at that you saw someone pitch badly, so that is how the whole season has been.

 

Please show me where I said that the Minny game that I was at, and the crappy performance by Jennings, was how the whole season for the pen has been….

 

I see what you've done though.. very skillful. you've taken something I've said and twisted it a bit, taken a kernel of it and molded it into an aberration of what I actually said..you then prop it up and display AS IF .. it's in fact.. my opinion.

 

And what i actually said though about the game I was at..., was the crowd booed when Jennings was lifted…and that's about it.. oh, and maybe some tongue in cheek comment about how the crowd should have cheered instead of booed….but if you were at the game, you would have sensed the fans expressing their general frustration .. like "HERE WE GO AGAIN"

 

I'm perfectly willing to engage in an intelligent debate with you…you don't get personal, and I appreciate that.. but don't start making crap up.. It's annoying as hell…You're better than that, boss….

Edited July 11, 2016 by captain54

[southsider2k5]

Please show me where I said that the Minny game that I was at, and the crappy performance by Jennings, was how the whole season for the pen has been….

 

I see what you've done though.. very skillful. you've taken something I've said and twisted it a bit, taken a kernel of it and molded it into an aberration of what I actually said..you then prop it up and display AS IF .. it's in fact.. my opinion.

 

And what i actually said though about the game I was at..., was the crowd booed when Jennings was lifted…and that's about it.. oh, and maybe some tongue in cheek comment about how the crowd should have cheered instead of booed….but if you were at the game, you would have sensed the fans expressing their general frustration .. like "HERE WE GO AGAIN"

 

I'm perfectly willing to engage in an intelligent debate with you…you don't get personal, and I appreciate that.. but don't start making crap up.. It's annoying as hell…You're better than that, boss….

 

You let me know when you are willing to do that on your side. I am just following your tone, as you were the one who jumped into the middle of this discussion with insults and non-sequiturs from a previous conversation. If you want to actually look at the numbers, go ahead and go back and do so. I gave you plenty of them. Even more than just Matt Albers.

[captain54]

You let me know when you are willing to do that on your side.

 

Oh well, I tried.. I pointed out an inconsistency in your logic in the Robertson thread… My point earlier was that the BP #'s are skewed because of

early positive numbers, you said Robertson's #'s are skewed because of negative numbers..but because my point leans more towards the negative,

I'm wrong and you're right..

 

Difficult to have a discussion with someone who dances around the central point of debate, then manufactures the other person's POV to fit however narrative they wish to promote…

 

So for that, I'm out . chief...

[Dick Allen]

Oh well, I tried.. I pointed out an inconsistency in your logic in the Robertson thread… My point earlier was that the BP #'s are skewed because of

early positive numbers, you said Robertson's #'s are skewed because of negative numbers..but because my point leans more towards the negative,

I'm wrong and you're right..

 

Difficult to have a discussion with someone who dances around the central point of debate, then manufactures the other person's POV to fit however narrative they wish to promote…

 

So for that, I'm out . chief...

Robertson's numbers are skewed because of a total of 1 inning in 36 pitched. That would be like saying the bullpen sucked this season based on 2 or 3 games. It's not even close to the same.